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Author Topic: XBOX: A New Generation Revealed, May 21st  (Read 21481 times)
Klutz64
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« Reply #300 on: June 07, 2013, 02:08:04 PM »

Unfortunately, Microsoft will get another small demographic with their usual strategy: Give away a bunch of free Xbone's to press celebs and morning talk show audiences, then people who will want to play the same system as their friends and/or idols will go out and buy one.
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Ashton
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« Reply #301 on: June 07, 2013, 02:43:26 PM »

Microsoft kills game ownership and expects us to smile -- Source: Eurogamer

"Almost exactly a year ago, at the end of an E3 press conference in which Microsoft heralded fitness software, Kinect, Internet Explorer, Bing and dying action games as the future of entertainment, I wrote that anyone who has paid attention to Microsoft's business over the years should not be surprised by its apparent lack of self-awareness.

"If we are entertained by what Microsoft chooses to do for its own gain," I suggested, "then that is simply a happy coincidence."

Guess what? The coincidence is over."

I have to wonder how many people who hate the Xbox One so much also think Steam is the best thing to ever happen. We can change those points ever so slightly and Steam would be guilty of the same thing.

-You do not own the games you buy. You license them.
-Discs are only used to install and then license games and do not imply ownership.
-People can play games installed on your computer whether you're logged in or not.
-Multiple people can be authorised to play these games on a different computer, but not at the same time, similar to iTunes authorised devices.
-You can't trade in your games
-You can't give games to friends
-Your account allows you to play the games you license on any computer.
-Your computer must connect to the internet a predetermined period of time to keep playing games.
-When playing on another computer with your account, you can't use your home computer.
-Live TV, Blu-ray and DVD movies are exempt from these internet requirements.
-Loaning and renting games will not be possible
-Valve may change these policies or discontinue them at any point.

I'm not saying that I LIKE the direction MS is taking; in fact, I hate it. The point remains, though. Steam is functionally identical, but people claim it's the best thing ever.
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Annubis
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« Reply #302 on: June 07, 2013, 02:53:55 PM »

While I have a Steam account and some games on it, I don't like Steam that much. I'm against DRM of any type and Steam is no exception. I do understand that it is a lesser evil though.
The biggest difference is that Steam offers lowered prices for digital goods most of the time and actively try to enhance their users' gaming experience. Steam never really needed Achievements, Cloud synching, Workshops, Communities, etc. but they did add those and often were among the first to integrate said features.
Finally, another argument would be that Steam is free while the Xbone isn't. That is a very big difference between the two platforms.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 02:55:52 PM by Annubis » Logged
Esper_Crusader
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« Reply #303 on: June 07, 2013, 02:54:56 PM »

Its just a sign of the times. I really don't care. Hard copies will be a memory in 10 years.
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« Reply #304 on: June 07, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »

Its just a sign of the times. I really don't care. Hard copies will be a memory in 10 years.

This kind of attitude doesn't help anybody.
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Ashton
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« Reply #305 on: June 07, 2013, 03:03:29 PM »

While I have a Steam account and some games on it, I don't like Steam that much. I'm against DRM of any type and Steam is no exception. I do understand that it is a lesser evil though.
The biggest difference is that Steam offers lowered prices for digital goods most of the time and actively try to enhance their users' gaming experience. Steam never really needed Achievements, Cloud synching, Workshops, Communities, etc. but they did add those and often were among the first to integrate said features.
Finally, another argument would be that Steam is free while the Xbone isn't. That is a very big difference between the two platforms.
Steam isn't free. You need to buy a computer to run it.

AM I to assume that by that argument, as long as companies offer us something, anti-consumer practices are a-okay? I really have to wonder, how many people torching the Xbox One have giant Steam libraries? How many have mobile phones and tablets with device limited purchases? How many have devices with a built in webcam? When you make an exception because of how you feel about one company it undermines any point you are trying to make.
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Annubis
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« Reply #306 on: June 07, 2013, 03:09:47 PM »

Sorry, but I think you read my post entirely wrong. Try and read it again and this time remember that I DID CALL IT THE LESSER EVIL.
Seriously... It's like you read it thinking I'm a Steam fanboy or something.

My Steam library consists of Steamwork only titles (Skyrim, Deus Ex:HR, etc.) and the occasional humble bundle to which I give money to charities. I will get the game DRM free whenever available. I'm boycotting Uplay and Origin completely also.
I have a cellphone on which I never bought anything.
I have no webcam.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 03:17:02 PM by Annubis » Logged
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« Reply #307 on: June 07, 2013, 03:13:29 PM »

I read your post fine. I was more talking about the trends I've seen on this discussion. A lot of people are hating on the Xbox One for various reasons, ranging from fair complaints (ownership rights) to absurd beliefs (Kinect will spy on me!). I'm just saying that almost all the complaints levied against the Xbox One are nulled by the actions of most of the gaming population. There is a very small subset of people that can get away with making these claims without logical inconsistencies poking them in the ass.
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« Reply #308 on: June 07, 2013, 03:19:24 PM »

Steam works way longer (forever? Just 30 days?) in its offline mode and is on a platform where some sort of piracy protection is arguably necessary: PC's an open platform, there's no way to silently and non-intrusively protect like you can on a closed platform such as consoles, and we were seeing really REALLY bad measures cropping up (Securom having the option to dial home every few days, TAGES having a limit of 5 machine activations EVER unless you call in to reset), Steam's basically just a compromise to be made for anyone that doesn't want to brave a full DRM-free release. Then there's the fact they actually can and do release DRM free games on Steam, although it's mostly indie titles and not made explicit, you'd have to try just running the games from their folder within Steam and see if it needs to go through Steam or not.

Microsoft's on a closed platform and should be innately guarded against piracy, but even if they were insistent on making it more or less a pure DD platform there were better ways of handling it, such as just fully copying Steam but axing the "needs to activate offline mode explicitly" bit. Instead it's this stupid attempt at a compromise between physical and digital that actually ends up MORE restrictive than if they just went digital all the way (and perhaps treated retail copies the same way Steam does), or at least the trade offs aren't really worth it.

Also just to kick them while they're down, PC is a platform you can mostly trust to be able to run games on in the future. Don Mattrick laughed off BC so who the fuck knows if Microsoft will carry over X1 stuff to the X2 or whatever fully?
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« Reply #309 on: June 07, 2013, 03:27:26 PM »

Having a longer period before phoning home doesn't really make it any more anti-consumer, though. Like I said, it still means you're leasing the games, just with more convenience. Also, piracy was evidently a pretty big problem with the Xbox 360. The half assed and confusing way MS is doing this is the only real legitimate complaint I feel can be leveled against them, though I imagine it's in part due to the complications of retail game sales - a fully DD console would likely be buried by every retailer.

I hadn't thought about the BC argument, which is a good point, and I imagine that's why MS and Sony are moving to the x86 architecture (basically making the next gen systems computers), but time will tell.
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Klutz64
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« Reply #310 on: June 07, 2013, 03:43:37 PM »

Yeah I think the Backwards Compatibility is the biggest issue when comparing Steam and Xbone. When I buy a new computer, I know all my Steam games will transfer over. The only fear I have of losing my Steam library is if Valve shuts down the servers for any reason.

While as we're already learning this console cycle that all of our previous purchases on PSN and XBL are now stranded on our current consoles, and once those are kaput, or need to be replaced for space, those games are gone. Also, it's important to note that lots of people hated the idea of Steam when it first started. Even today, people who praise Steam don't praise it for the DRM, that's just a part of it that users have gotten used to. If the Xbone gets off the ground, I'm sure the same thing will happen.
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« Reply #311 on: June 07, 2013, 03:49:34 PM »

Well, for whatever it's worth with Steam I haven't actually seen verification it gave up after 30 days, someone's said they had theirs on offline mode for a long, long time and has continued to use it just fine. Plus I don't see Steam servers going down due to generational shifts like with consoles, there's simply no logical need for it.

And to me if they can't adequately protect against piracy then that's their failing, not something to be taken out on us (as it were), the DS and PSP got completely ripped into, yet the 3DS and Vita have been much more resilient, it took until now for a 3DS flash cart and that's apparently some crappy thing that can't take more than one game per SD card and will lose saves if you swap, hopefully Nintendo can block that and that's the last we hear of it.
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« Reply #312 on: June 07, 2013, 06:16:26 PM »

It's all business in the end, but the devil's in the details.  It really isn't about the DRM because if it were, people would have been hating on Xbox Live Arcade and PSN titles like crazy.

Valve projects an image of putting the customer first with constant game sales and free online play... people feel like they're getting great deals (and they do).  Microsoft has projected an image of putting the publishers and themselves first with charging for online play and creating an environment designed to extract as much money out of the customer as possible (games on demand prices are hilarious).  Microsoft emphasizing TV and sports with the debut of their new console was not endearing in the slightest.  They have a tremendous image problem, and I haven't the slightest bit of sympathy for them.  Most of my current gen game library is on my Xbox 360, but they have become repulsive enough to the point that I'm not buying their new platform, as much as I want to play Crimson Dragon which is undoubtedly going to be re-revealed as an Xbox One exclusive.
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« Reply #313 on: June 07, 2013, 06:29:21 PM »

There's also the fact that Steam still supports indie games as well as imports that otherwise wouldn't have a chance out on store shelves due to obscurity or not being complete and total shovelware. Take Ys Origins. There's a game that never would've had a chance otherwise. Take the games localized by Carpe Fulgur. They would've never have had a chance either without some form of digital distribution. Even PSN has been doing this to a certain respect with guys like GungHo and MonkeyPaw Games bringing PS1 games that were too obscure even for the late 90's.

Now look at the XBone and tell me that they're going to allow an environment to facilitate such endeavors (especially when you consider they basically said 'fuck you Japan, indies, and start-up localizers' during their announcement back in May).


Also I was able to get back onto Steam recently even though I haven't even touched it since downloading Portal 1 back when it was offered for free in '010 (mostly because the computer I was using back then has no graphics card). When I got back Portal 1 was still there right where I left it but now on a new computer that wasn't all but completely gutted before being resold.
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« Reply #314 on: June 07, 2013, 07:14:50 PM »

It's all business in the end, but the devil's in the details.  It really isn't about the DRM because if it were, people would have been hating on Xbox Live Arcade and PSN titles like crazy.

Well, the daily minimum requirement to phone home IS a new wrinkle that puts it closer to the likes of Diablo III and SimCity, which people HAVE ravaged. But, yeah, Microsoft's overall image as a console manufacturer has become more and more unlikeable if not outright abhorrent over the last few years, and they're not really fixing their problems, flaring those up while creating new ones.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 07:43:02 PM by Eusis » Logged
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