Author Topic: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.

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Ranadiel

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #120 on: July 04, 2015, 07:26:21 AM »
Of course she's supposed to be black.  Just look at how big her lips are.

No, seriously, for some reason Japanese people have this stereotype that black people have enormous lips.  I don't really get it but you see it all the time there.
...that's because of the U.S. >.> History lesson time! You see a vast majority of anime conventions come from U.S. animation conventions that were prevalent in U.S. animation during the U.S. occupation of Japan. In many ways you can say that the "anime style" of big expressive eyes originates from the Japanese copying Disney cartoons as that is the style of animation that Japanese animators were exposed to before they started working on their own homegrown industry.

Now then, if you go back to U.S. cartoons from that era (well assuming you can find any), you'll notice that blacks were depicted with giant lips in those cartoons. This was playing on stereotypes that were heavily played up in minstrel shows/blackface. Those depictions are now see as being horribly insensitive in the U.S., but Japan's population lacks a significant black presence, so they don't recognize the history for what we imported to them. >.>

Aeolus

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #121 on: July 04, 2015, 07:56:08 PM »
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/04/mega-man-legends-staff-working-on-red-ash-kickstarter-up/

So it looks like my Mad-Lib write up about this game was way off. I should've had a thesaurus on hand when I made that post.
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Hathen

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #122 on: July 05, 2015, 02:07:28 AM »
Sorry INAFKING, I'm not really feeling it this time. At least the Mighty No. 9 kickstarter had mock ups of what the game might look like (though the end product ended up looking a lot worse) in addition to their character and concept art. There was even a few shots of people working on the 3D models of Beck and whatnot. Here we got the character art and a bunch of storyboards (also what I'm guessing is Hochu Otsuka's voice which was the best part). Mighty No. 9's not even out yet and I want to know if that's actually a decent game before bothering to help you fund your next game (Though really they should be trying to fund their own projects now that they have actually made a major release). I get that you can't just have your programmers sitting around twiddling their thumbs while MN09 is entering post-production but I find it hard to believe Comcept doesn't have enough money for ~3 months before needing to make this sort of announcement.

Jimmy

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #123 on: July 06, 2015, 11:37:34 AM »
I agree completely, Hathen. I'd like to actually be able to play Mighty No. 9 before I support a new title from Inafune and Comcept. Also, since Mighty No. 9 was completely funded by the generosity of fans, they should wait and use the profit they make to fund the studio's next game. Or at the very least, try to fund it themselves.

Arklight

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #124 on: July 06, 2015, 01:39:22 PM »
I'm getting a little tired of Inafune trying to relive his glory days at this point, to be perfectly honest. If these games turn out to be good, then hooray. I'm not particularly fond of the guy though.
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Hathen

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #125 on: July 06, 2015, 05:24:16 PM »
I agree completely, Hathen. I'd like to actually be able to play Mighty No. 9 before I support a new title from Inafune and Comcept. Also, since Mighty No. 9 was completely funded by the generosity of fans, they should wait and use the profit they make to fund the studio's next game. Or at the very least, try to fund it themselves.

So I slowed down and read the description a little closer, it seems like all the people reporting about this are leaving out something really important.

This thing they're kickstarting is in fact, a prologue game of some kind, and only a snippet of what the "full game" would be (they said it would be around 8 hours long). I'm guessing it's a lot like what MGS Ground Zeroes was. Apparently they're saying the full game would cost way too much to ask Kickstarter- when you think about it that's not really a surprise, they want to make an open world game and that can cost tens of millions in a first world country like Japan. Makes the $800k they're asking for make a whole lot more sense because there's no way you'd be making an open world game on that budget.

From the page:

Quote
This story has always been planned as a key jumping-on point for the universe, and we hope to use this small, but dense taste of the RED ASH universe as a foundation on which to build future content. Whether it's through additional funding, revenue from "The KalKanon Incident" sales, or teaming up with a publisher, this is a story we are determined to tell, and we want all of our backers to be on the ground floor for the creation of this new game universe.

It seems like it's basically them asking the fans to fund a pitch/proposal sort of thing. When put this way it does seem like an appropriate use of Kickstarter.

Unfortunately they really picked the worst combination of factors. People are going "didn't we already give you guys money" after MN09, June/July is like the worst time to launch a kickstarter, and on top of that they're making this right after people have already put their money into Yooka Laylee, Bloodstained and Shenmue. There's still plenty of time so I'll put some thought into whether or not I'll kickstart this one, I do hope they can make their initial goal at least.

Hathen

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #126 on: August 07, 2015, 11:33:42 AM »
Looks like Red Ash didn't get its money (but it'll get made anyway), and Mighty No. 9 is getting delayed all the way to Q1 2016. There's a whole lot of other stuff that happens around those two announcements but I guess the short version is that the internet isn't terribly happy about it.

Aeolus

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #127 on: August 07, 2015, 12:47:33 PM »
Looks like Red Ash didn't get its money (but it'll get made anyway), and Mighty No. 9 is getting delayed all the way to Q1 2016. There's a whole lot of other stuff that happens around those two announcements but I guess the short version is that the internet isn't terribly happy about it.

The Red Ash anime got funded though. Enough to warrant a second KS even.
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Hathen

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #128 on: September 26, 2015, 07:02:38 AM »
So after giving a heartfelt apology about delaying the game, Comcept released a demo version of the game (which then got delayed itself for like a week, which is really funny in that comedy of errors kind of way). Anyway they also announced MN09 would be on sale on February, but honestly after screwing around with the demo a bit I find it hard to recommend to anyone who didn't pledge to the game. Some random thoughts:

-The graphics are still awful. Beck's default model in particular seems like a really weird thing to screw up the way they did because it's what you'll be looking at for like 90% of the game (the demo didn't have special weapons unlock when you beat bosses so all I could see was the default model).

-An extension of the above complaint is that the animations are really bad. For example, in the story sections of the game characters stand completely still while text appears on the bottom and you get voiceovers. They didn't even add mouth movements or expressions on the characters' faces or anything like that, it feels very weird. I don't understand why they didn't at least do that thing where the drawn art of the person talking appears.

-I wouldn't mind the above two complaints so much if I wasn't getting some really bad stuttering in certain parts of the game. I have a Radeon HD 6850 which is admittedly pretty outdated, but it shouldn't be having trouble playing a game that looks this bad. I tried screwing with the graphic settings of the game but the stuttering persisted even on the lowest settings. The stuttering always happened around the same place so I can only assume there's something wrong with those particular parts of the game, and the game continues "running" even while your screen stutters, which is not something you want happening in an action platformer game. I decided on the 3DS version of the game a while back when they sent out surveys so hopefully this won't be an issue on consoles at least.

Alright, so for the important parts:

-The demo provided 4 stages: The intro plus 3 robot master (Mighty Numbers, whatever) stages. A big problem with this game is that Beck's skillset doesn't seem to mesh well with how they designed the game at all.

-Not much to say about the intro stage, it's easy, but that's probably appropriate. It introduces you to most of Beck's abilities and it works pretty well.

-What absolutely kills this game is the fact that Beck is allowed to air dash infinite times. You will slowly lose altitude since there's a split-second delay before you can dash again, but it means you can skip over huge sections of the platforming sections in each stage just by dashing over and over.

-The military base stage is very easy. The stage's gimmick is conveyor belts and mines on the ground. The stage is mostly narrow hallways so you can't air dash over stuff as often, but it doesn't really matter because the only way you're going to get hit by a mine is if you're really inattentive and walk over one instead of just dashing your way through the stage. The boss is also incredibly easy and I beat him on the first try.

-The power plant stage doesn't seem to have any particular unifying element to it aside from it being dark, but it doesn't matter because they decided to make all models not be affected by the lighting, so you can see pretty much everything just fine. There's one section of the stage where you are supposed to use the low-dash ability (hold down + hit dash) to avoid an instant death trap, but that doesn't happen a single other time in the stage so the stage isn't "about" using the low dash, you just run through hallways until you reach this one section where the game actually prompts you to use it, which indicates to me even the person who made the stage knew it was incredibly counterintuitive. It's such a pointless skill in the rest of the game I wouldn't be surprised people forgot about it most of the game.

-The power plant boss took me a few tries to beat, I liked her enough.

-The oil refinery is the only "new" stage in this demo (they had a beta earlier which already had the above stages IIRC) and it's easily the hardest one if you play it "properly", but they made it too easy to cheese the stage.

-Early in the stage is a bunch of oil slicks and sometimes enemies will throw fire into them and ignite them similar to Flame Man's stage in MM6, but it doesn't matter because I just air dashed through most of it. What a complete waste.

-The final section can be quite difficult- huge smokestacks are falling down and you have to dash quickly through them and not get touched (they're instant kills). There are also enemies shooting fireballs from the background and if you get hit by one of these back into one of the smokestacks as they're falling you'll die (instant kills ignore your post hit invulnerability like in MM1). This seems to be the only section I played which took into consideration the fact that Beck can dash through the air infinite times. The problem is that you can just inch forward to make the smokestacks fall down, and then dash through safely without needing to do any advanced maneuvering at all, it's a complete waste of the only difficult platforming section I came across.

-The fire boss, Pyro, is a complete cheapass, because his super move (every boss has one when they get to the halfway point) is an instant kill. He doesn't seem to have any particular pattern to how he uses it, sometimes he jumps and sometimes he doesn't. I stopped trying to beat him after a while, I might go back later and see if there's some kind of visual clue to when he plans on jumping, but I think they really screwed up with this boss giving him a instant kill like this.

-So far the music's really hit-or-miss. The Military Base has some pretty cool music but I have idea what the fuck Manami Matsumae was thinking with the Power Plant theme. There's an option for turning the music into "retro" versions (it was one of the stretch goals) but there's something really off about the way it sounds. I can't find uploads of it anywhere so unfortunately I can't demonstrate. It doesn't sound like 8 bit music though.

-Finally I should note that Beck has this ability to do this weird "jump back while firing" move if you hold the right trigger while pressing attack, which I've found exactly one use for, but not for dodging so much as just shooting downwards. I don't understand the inclusion of it at all really, it runs counter to the rest of the game's design because the fact that Beck needs to absorb enemies by dashing into them means you need to play very aggressively, and a move used purely for dodging is barely ever going to get used.

-One cool detail I noticed is that when Beck dies, he blows up into into a bunch of cubes, revealing this weird orb thing which flies off (the orb's the same thing for the healing items as far as I can tell).

I wouldn't say I hated the demo or anything. I had some fun throughout but the word I'd use to describe it is "mediocre". It's also very frustrating because all these problems should've been apparent to these people who have been making Megaman games since forever. It feels like they wanted to expand Megaman beyond just the simple jumping and shooting stuff but none of the stuff they added really works, and the stages suffered for it when the simpler controls for classic Megaman synergized better.

Mickeymac92

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #129 on: September 26, 2015, 09:20:00 AM »
Thanks a million for the detailed impressions, Hathen. I'm really disappointed to hear there's so many problems with the game. If it was a cheap indie game with a small budget, I'd find it easier to forgive, but a 3.9 million dollar crowd-funded project from the makers of Mega Man and other platformers that ranged from good to masterpieces just makes the whole thing infuriating.

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Hathen

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #130 on: September 26, 2015, 11:22:02 AM »
As far as the budget goes, I can only assume that a lot of it went to just porting the game to the 10 million consoles Mighty No. 9 is going to be on. That probably isn't cheap to do.

I mean, I usually don't get angry over video games so what I've played has just left me perplexed more than anything. In addition to some of big names that were used to market this, Inti Creates also has their name attached to this, and they made both X-style Megaman games (the entirety of the Z and ZX series) and what I think are two of the best classic style Megaman games (9 and 10). I don't understand how people who have had decades of experience, some of who literally worked on the first Megaman game, could have made what are essentially amateur mistakes in the core gameplay of a pretty simple series.

Also to rant a bit more about the bad graphics, the problem isn't that they're technically unimpressive- that actually would've been fine if they could've imbued it with some charm like the Megaman Legends graphics, which I personally think still look good to this day. Inti Creates has a history of unimpressive 3D graphics- look up a game named Gal*Gun and consider that that game was released in 2011. The problem with the graphics in Mighty No.9 is that they just look bad in general. For example, I can only assume that they were trying to make Beck's model proportioned similarly to the Megaman sprite, but it's a good example of why you don't transfer things directly from 2D to 3D graphics. They made a model for him which has huge arms that get larger as they move distally and as a result he has to always hold them diagonally and he looks ridiculous. With a sprite you can just "cheat" since you draw each one individually and whoever is looking at it fills in the blanks with their mind. Same thing with what I mentioned about the story sections looking bad- Megaman fans never had a problem with Megaman and Dr. Light talking to each other with their laughable 2-frame mouth movements because the mind will fill in the blanks. When you do it with 3D models it just looks terrible despite the fact it actually took more effort to make all of it.

Kevadu

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #131 on: September 26, 2015, 10:01:31 PM »
...despite the fact it actually took more effort to make all of it.

I'm honestly not sure that's true.

Sure it takes some initial investment to make a 3D model, but once you have one you are free to manipulate it however you want.  As opposed to sprites that have to be drawn a frame at a time for every situation.  Which is part of the reason 3D graphics took off in the first place:  At least for larger projects it's actually less work in the long run.

Aeolus

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #132 on: September 26, 2015, 10:22:06 PM »
As far as the budget goes, I can only assume that a lot of it went to just porting the game to the 10 million consoles Mighty No. 9 is going to be on. That probably isn't cheap to do.

I mean, I usually don't get angry over video games so what I've played has just left me perplexed more than anything. In addition to some of big names that were used to market this, Inti Creates also has their name attached to this, and they made both X-style Megaman games (the entirety of the Z and ZX series) and what I think are two of the best classic style Megaman games (9 and 10). I don't understand how people who have had decades of experience, some of who literally worked on the first Megaman game, could have made what are essentially amateur mistakes in the core gameplay of a pretty simple series.

Also to rant a bit more about the bad graphics, the problem isn't that they're technically unimpressive- that actually would've been fine if they could've imbued it with some charm like the Megaman Legends graphics, which I personally think still look good to this day. Inti Creates has a history of unimpressive 3D graphics- look up a game named Gal*Gun and consider that that game was released in 2011. The problem with the graphics in Mighty No.9 is that they just look bad in general. For example, I can only assume that they were trying to make Beck's model proportioned similarly to the Megaman sprite, but it's a good example of why you don't transfer things directly from 2D to 3D graphics. They made a model for him which has huge arms that get larger as they move distally and as a result he has to always hold them diagonally and he looks ridiculous. With a sprite you can just "cheat" since you draw each one individually and whoever is looking at it fills in the blanks with their mind. Same thing with what I mentioned about the story sections looking bad- Megaman fans never had a problem with Megaman and Dr. Light talking to each other with their laughable 2-frame mouth movements because the mind will fill in the blanks. When you do it with 3D models it just looks terrible despite the fact it actually took more effort to make all of it.

From what I've heard, due to the rules on how the different companies were working on this game, Inti Creates weren't really allowed to get too involved. They were hired to provide certain tools and services and nothing else, to the point of not even being able to provide advice about what was going on. That's why they've put out two full games (Azure Striker Gunvolt and Gal Gun 2) while this mess has been going down, they really aren't that involved.

This, unfortunately, was mostly Comcept's show (more specifically, the old crew that Inafune got together to work on this game with), and between the small crew, the badly handled KS (if their goal was to set out and perform every classic KS mistake under the sun, they've succeeded) and Inafune's own overreach, I can't imagine this being all that good. Its just a shame really.

I think the lesson to be taken away from this is that it wasn't just Capcom's fault that Megaman is dead, and it is nothing short of amazing that the franchise lasted as long as it did.
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Hathen

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #133 on: September 27, 2015, 09:46:35 AM »
Here's a nice enough video with the three Mighty Number stages from the beta in case any of you want some visuals to go with my rant.

Sure it takes some initial investment to make a 3D model, but once you have one you are free to manipulate it however you want.  As opposed to sprites that have to be drawn a frame at a time for every situation.  Which is part of the reason 3D graphics took off in the first place:  At least for larger projects it's actually less work in the long run.

That's true for highly detailed/animated spritework, but considering the level of animation Mighty No. 9 is showing I doubt that's the case here. At least in the demo, I don't see any movements from the models which couldn't have been done using sprites with less effort, and would've looked better to boot. As you mentioned, once you've actually made the models you have more freedom to do a variety of animations without exponentially increasing the workload like with sprites, which is why I find it odd the cutscenes in Mighty No. 9 are so damn stiff (even if they didn't make the models themselves capable of having mouth movements, would it have really killed them to make face textures or whatever with mouth flapping?). Even comic-style cutins like from X5 and the like would've been better.

From what I've heard, due to the rules on how the different companies were working on this game, Inti Creates weren't really allowed to get too involved. They were hired to provide certain tools and services and nothing else, to the point of not even being able to provide advice about what was going on. That's why they've put out two full games (Azure Striker Gunvolt and Gal Gun 2) while this mess has been going down, they really aren't that involved.

I'd rather see some kind of source on a claim like this before I believe it, because at this point there's been tons and tons of bullshit passed around due to some of the drama surrounding the game and its development. This isn't the first time Inti Creates has put out multiple games in a year.

Jimmy

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Re: Inafune's latest project The Mighty No.9 looks Mega Rocking, man.
« Reply #134 on: January 25, 2016, 01:54:36 PM »
Necro-ing this topic again as it was announced today that Mighty No. 9 has been delayed yet again. Who was surprised by this announcement? Absolutely no one. Here's a link:

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/comcept-delays-mighty-no.-9-for-the-third-time-this-time-until-spring-2016

It's pretty sad that the software they were using when they began development of this game is no longer supported and they actually have to do coding themselves for something that sounds like had been a pre-fabricated tool. Though it makes sense that they're having issues given all the platforms that are supported.

Oh well. We'll see it someday I guess.