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Author Topic: Are turn-based console RPGs officially dead?  (Read 6010 times)
Aeolus
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2013, 09:31:59 PM »

I still think FFX had the best battle system ever in an FF game and wonder why no other FF has used it.  Maybe it was good because it was influenced by Grandia's system, which is still one of the pinnacles of turn-based.  I prefer turn-based myself, because I don't have that good of reaction time for action-based games and am a control freak in that I don't trust AI to control my side characters.  I like to issue their commands.  (Granted, the gambits in FF12 did AI right.) 

That, and pretty much everything from Hyper Dimensional Neptunia to Mana Khemia to Radiant Historia and so on have utilized the same system FFX started. I doubt that they'd be willing to go dip into that played out well any time soon (especially when there are more flashy ways to fight battles in).
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Ashton
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2013, 09:38:45 PM »

Honestly I think BoF 3 and 4 had the best turn based systems. If only 4 utilized 3's EX turn system, it'd be perfect.
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2013, 09:59:42 PM »

That, and pretty much everything from Hyper Dimensional Neptunia to Mana Khemia to Radiant Historia and so on have utilized the same system FFX started. I doubt that they'd be willing to go dip into that played out well any time soon (especially when there are more flashy ways to fight battles in).

I just wanted to say, I'm pretty sure that Breath of Fire IV started it, not FFX.

Edit: I agree with Ashton, for the most part, though I have to say I loved Breath of Fire V's system.  Some people consider that something like a SRPG mix, though.
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2013, 10:11:12 PM »

You don't really see them on consoles for similar reasons to why you don't see side scrollers as major console releases either- they were perfected like a decade ago and there's nothing to show off with new technology and mechanics for the most part. You'll see more releases in arcade games and the occasional console release but it's the same thing as wanting a major release of a contra game or something.

They weren't perfected at all. That's an absurd notion. It implies that the development of video game combat systems are linear and quantifiable.

That, and old turn-based games were mostly grind-fests or consisted of hitting [Attack] over and over.

If anything there are countless areas in which the genre can be improved.
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2013, 10:12:46 PM »

Honestly I think BoF 3 and 4 had the best turn based systems. If only 4 utilized 3's EX turn system, it'd be perfect.

What EX Turn? I got halfway through BoF3 and do not remember that system.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2013, 10:17:13 PM »

Honestly I think BoF 3 and 4 had the best turn based systems. If only 4 utilized 3's EX turn system, it'd be perfect.

What EX Turn? I got halfway through BoF3 and do not remember that system.

If your character was fast enough they'd get a second action within the same turn. That's why people always recommend Rei, Ryu, and Momo in that order for the Line formation (or was it speed formation) even if it makes the team into a walking glass cannon.
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« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2013, 10:22:19 PM »

Honestly I think BoF 3 and 4 had the best turn based systems. If only 4 utilized 3's EX turn system, it'd be perfect.

What EX Turn? I got halfway through BoF3 and do not remember that system.

If your character was fast enough they'd get a second action within the same turn. That's why people always recommend Rei, Ryu, and Momo in that order for the Line formation (or was it speed formation) even if it makes the team into a walking glass cannon.

Oh, I forgot about that! Yeah that was...something, certainly made you think a little.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2013, 10:31:00 PM »

Honestly I think BoF 3 and 4 had the best turn based systems. If only 4 utilized 3's EX turn system, it'd be perfect.

What EX Turn? I got halfway through BoF3 and do not remember that system.

If your character was fast enough they'd get a second action within the same turn. That's why people always recommend Rei, Ryu, and Momo in that order for the Line formation (or was it speed formation) even if it makes the team into a walking glass cannon.

Oh, I forgot about that! Yeah that was...something, certainly made you think a little.

It was Chain formation! Son of a bitch.

Also, yeah, I misspoke when I said 'started' in my post at the top of the page. Hell Grandia was given as an example right before I made my post. The word I was looking for was 'featured'.
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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2013, 02:27:32 AM »

I hate turn-based these days unless they are quick and offer a valuable gimmick...  I love FF9 to death, but it treads on thin ice with respect to my patience to fight enemies.

FFX is perfect for its speed (and because I'm otherwise sceptical of early FF titles telling me my Haste spell works, FFX visually demonstrates it does with that awesome turn-order thing)

Radiant Historia gave high risk for high rewards by trading off turns --- cool!

DDS (SMT in general) reward good moves and punish for bad... great what the ball is in my court!

I remember Legend of Legaia was a cool battle system ruined by its own originality later on when you'd open up more moves...eventually turns took way too long.  Baten Kaitos was somewhat like this as well, but it didn't take nearly as long.

I don't have much to add otherwise. 
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2013, 03:06:36 AM »

The combo system from SH2 is ridiculously satisfying used on bosses, like deathblow combos from Xenogears but refined.
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2013, 03:32:08 AM »

That, and pretty much everything from Hyper Dimensional Neptunia to Mana Khemia to Radiant Historia and so on have utilized the same system FFX started. I doubt that they'd be willing to go dip into that played out well any time soon (especially when there are more flashy ways to fight battles in).

I just wanted to say, I'm pretty sure that Breath of Fire IV started it, not FFX.


Wild Arms 2 allowed you to swap party members mid-battle as well, didn't it? Granted, the system in Breath of Fire IV was much more fluid, but Wild Arms people had the right idea. What's the point of having six or so playable characters if you're only going to use half of them most of the game? It doesn't make much sense either: three peeps fight fight to the death while the others lounge around? Yeah, that's stupid.

Breath of Fire IV also had that neat little combo system. I love combo systems.
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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2013, 03:39:29 AM »

Yeah, WIld Arms 2 had that, but if the three main party members died, game over. BoF4 basically made it so that all six of your party members had to go down before you were screwed.
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« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2013, 04:13:57 AM »

Yeah, WIld Arms 2 had that, but if the three main party members died, game over. BoF4 basically made it so that all six of your party members had to go down before you were screwed.

BoF 4 isn't a terribly difficult game, but the one bias that managed to destroy my party, funny enough, was that goddamn pair of dice you fight in some tomb..
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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2013, 04:24:58 AM »

the reason the ffx battle system was so good is because it had the front mission battle director.
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2013, 05:20:36 AM »

They weren't perfected at all. That's an absurd notion. It implies that the development of video game combat systems are linear and quantifiable.

That, and old turn-based games were mostly grind-fests or consisted of hitting [Attack] over and over.

If anything there are countless areas in which the genre can be improved.

They were "perfected" in parts of game design that are linear and quantifiable, that being hardware limitations, which was the point. Turn-based RPGs were a popular choice in the early years of game design (and continue to be a popular choice for amateur game devs) exactly because they require somewhat less sophisticated programming and resources etc. Anything that would improve the genre gameplay-wise would require lateral thinking and wouldn't be improved by new hardware/software much at all. Would. say, an improved physics engine improve a Turn-based RPG? Aside from making spell effects flashier, probably not (If you got creative maybe you could incorporate physics into how damage is calculated and such I suppose).

The thing you're describing (people mashing attack over and over) isn't something solved by a better console but by a dev not being lazy when they're calculating the stats for the game. So obviously, someone's going to ask why they would spend millions on a major console release when they can make basically that same game for Arcade or RPGM.

I'm not against a big console RPG, I think that's a pretty big reason though. You don't need to release a console game to improve RPGs. On somewhat a related note, how many console puzzle releases have you seen other than the obligatory 5 or 6 a console gets? Most of them seem to have migrated to mobile gaming.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 05:33:59 AM by Hathen » Logged
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