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Author Topic: Unsung Story: A Kickstarter by Yasumi Matsuno.  (Read 9870 times)
DrGonzo
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« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2014, 02:42:33 PM »

Even though I've never cared for the story and characters that Matsuno creates because of how poorly structured it is

In my experience that's one of the most engaging aspects of his work.
It's just one of those things where I do love the world and world building but the characters just weren't very memorable for me to care. Plus this is just a little pet peeve for me, but I absolutely hate it when translators try to write in English dialogue that's trying to mimic old-english dialect, it's extremely distracting.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2014, 02:54:26 PM »

Plus this is just a little pet peeve for me, but I absolutely hate it when translators try to write in English dialogue that's trying to mimic old-english dialect, it's extremely distracting.

When translators do that it's usually because the original is using an old-fashioned Japanese dialect.  How do you want them to translate that?
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DrGonzo
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« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2014, 08:30:37 PM »

Plus this is just a little pet peeve for me, but I absolutely hate it when translators try to write in English dialogue that's trying to mimic old-english dialect, it's extremely distracting.

When translators do that it's usually because the original is using an old-fashioned Japanese dialect.  How do you want them to translate that?
Good question. Just try to at least edge it out so that it can be more readable for people like me who don't normally get around to reading Old-English text. I'm not saying like Atlus/Persona quality, just enough to where I can get past the story more leniently.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2014, 11:28:59 PM »

Matsuno is not the director of the game. A lot more weary of this game now. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-01-18/yasumi-matsuno-not-directing-unsung-heroes-game

Well that explains the mostly western crew.

I guess Advisor isn't too far off though, and hell, this is probably better than Director given his penchant for needlessly convoluted game mechanics that don't really serve the game or the story (also maybe less ridiculous loot mechanics too). Anyways, he still sounds like he's on the plot end of things, and that's what really matters.
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Cyril
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« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2014, 01:18:17 AM »

Good question. Just try to at least edge it out so that it can be more readable for people like me who don't normally get around to reading Old-English text. I'm not saying like Atlus/Persona quality, just enough to where I can get past the story more leniently.

I'd like to point out that when a character is written to speak archaically, it's not supposed to be "easily readable."  That's part of the point of adding the style in the first place, beyond showing something more traditional in Japanese.

The closest you could get in English is a formal written style, which tends to sound exceedingly awkward and "forced "when spoken aloud.
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Tomara
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« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2014, 03:55:32 AM »

Matsuno is not the director of the game. A lot more weary of this game now. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-01-18/yasumi-matsuno-not-directing-unsung-heroes-game

Well that explains the mostly western crew.

I guess Advisor isn't too far off though, and hell, this is probably better than Director given his penchant for needlessly convoluted game mechanics that don't really serve the game or the story (also maybe less ridiculous loot mechanics too). Anyways, he still sounds like he's on the plot end of things, and that's what really matters.

I was thinking the same thing. As much as I love those granular stats and what not, I doubt it's what this new game needs. Matsuno not being in charge of gameplay mechanics in such detail mat very wel be a good thing.
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DrGonzo
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« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2014, 03:22:01 PM »

Good question. Just try to at least edge it out so that it can be more readable for people like me who don't normally get around to reading Old-English text. I'm not saying like Atlus/Persona quality, just enough to where I can get past the story more leniently.

I'd like to point out that when a character is written to speak archaically, it's not supposed to be "easily readable."  That's part of the point of adding the style in the first place, beyond showing something more traditional in Japanese.

The closest you could get in English is a formal written style, which tends to sound exceedingly awkward and "forced "when spoken aloud.
Even with those said, I still couldn't get around the dialogue at all. Maybe it's because I'm more into personal stories like in the Shin Megami Tensei games and I can''t get around to stories such as Matsuno's stories and the Witcher series because they're too involved into open-ended political ramifications to the point where all of my personal engagement go out the door. They feel more like I'm reading my college history textbook than an actual story and god knows I don't want to be reminded of that.
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Vencoris
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« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2014, 04:33:38 PM »

Even with those said, I still couldn't get around the dialogue at all. Maybe it's because I'm more into personal stories like in the Shin Megami Tensei games and I can''t get around to stories such as Matsuno's stories and the Witcher series because they're too involved into open-ended political ramifications to the point where all of my personal engagement go out the door. They feel more like I'm reading my college history textbook than an actual story and god knows I don't want to be reminded of that.

I tend to find Matsuno's political/faction driven storylines more interesting and engaging than the standard fare.

They can provide an understandable framework for characters to react and develop without having to 'overreact' among themselves for motivation (I find most standard RPG interpersonal drama annoying, which is maybe why I can't really get into the persona games).
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« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2014, 06:59:22 PM »

Even with those said, I still couldn't get around the dialogue at all. Maybe it's because I'm more into personal stories like in the Shin Megami Tensei games and I can''t get around to stories such as Matsuno's stories and the Witcher series because they're too involved into open-ended political ramifications to the point where all of my personal engagement go out the door. They feel more like I'm reading my college history textbook than an actual story and god knows I don't want to be reminded of that.

I tend to find Matsuno's political/faction driven storylines more interesting and engaging than the standard fare.

They can provide an understandable framework for characters to react and develop without having to 'overreact' among themselves for motivation (I find most standard RPG interpersonal drama annoying, which is maybe why I can't really get into the persona games).

^ this
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DrGonzo
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« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2014, 09:05:21 PM »

Even with those said, I still couldn't get around the dialogue at all. Maybe it's because I'm more into personal stories like in the Shin Megami Tensei games and I can''t get around to stories such as Matsuno's stories and the Witcher series because they're too involved into open-ended political ramifications to the point where all of my personal engagement go out the door. They feel more like I'm reading my college history textbook than an actual story and god knows I don't want to be reminded of that.

I tend to find Matsuno's political/faction driven storylines more interesting and engaging than the standard fare.

They can provide an understandable framework for characters to react and develop without having to 'overreact' among themselves for motivation (I find most standard RPG interpersonal drama annoying, which is maybe why I can't really get into the persona games).
The Persona games are unlike what you think of as "overreact among themselves for motivation." They feel more human and real to what people in the real world would react, despite their anime nature. Whenever I go through political/faction driven plot in Final Fantasy Tactics or Tactics Ogre, there's way too much in the plate for the plot to condense itself for someone like me to get involved in the story. It can be construed that I just need to pay more attention in order to be invested in it, but you don't have to go through that huge amount of grand scale to get something out of the plot. Every time I'm trying to get invested into the characters and their struggles, it feels more like a chore than an easy story experience in say Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky or Persona.
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Vencoris
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« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2014, 09:35:15 PM »

The Persona games are unlike what you think of as "overreact among themselves for motivation." They feel more human and real to what people in the real world would react, despite their anime nature. Whenever I go through political/faction driven plot in Final Fantasy Tactics or Tactics Ogre, there's way too much in the plate for the plot to condense itself for someone like me to get involved in the story. It can be construed that I just need to pay more attention in order to be invested in it, but you don't have to go through that huge amount of grand scale to get something out of the plot. Every time I'm trying to get invested into the characters and their struggles, it feels more like a chore than an easy story experience in say Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky or Persona.

It appears we just look for different things in our games.

I have Persona 3 on the PSP and 4 on the Vita, both of which I've tried to start a few times.
But when things get rolling I find myself tuning out and losing interest as the characters spend time and energy talking about their days at school, the people they like (or don't), and various emotional issues.  Their interpersonal collisions which drive character development grate on me.   And while maybe they are accurate  representations of teenage behavior they just aren't something I find compelling (although maybe I'm expecting too much, how many teenagers are rational actors anyway?).

To me those things are just as much a turnoff as the political maneuvering of Tactics Ogre is to you.
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DrGonzo
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« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2014, 02:47:26 AM »

It appears we just look for different things in our games.

I have Persona 3 on the PSP and 4 on the Vita, both of which I've tried to start a few times.
But when things get rolling I find myself tuning out and losing interest as the characters spend time and energy talking about their days at school, the people they like (or don't), and various emotional issues.  Their interpersonal collisions which drive character development grate on me.   And while maybe they are accurate  representations of teenage behavior they just aren't something I find compelling (although maybe I'm expecting too much, how many teenagers are rational actors anyway?).

To me those things are just as much a turnoff as the political maneuvering of Tactics Ogre is to you.
That isn't to say I dislike political stories of any kind, just when they're told well.

That is quite a shame that you think that way, since Persona 4, and 3 to a lesser extent, have some of the best writing in most video games. I don't understand how the interpersonal collisions grate you even though those collisions add so much depth to the characterization of the characters that make them have so much emotional impact near the end than any of Matsuno's work. Not saying the teenagers in Persona are any real than what actual teenagers act like, it's just the emotional connection is what's real. Like, whenever I see someone die in either of the Tactics games I'm like, "Um, wait who was that guy again and why should I care?" Not to say I'm right and your wrong, that's just how I feel.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:50:09 AM by DrGonzo » Logged
Parn
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« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2014, 03:29:12 AM »

That isn't to say I dislike political stories of any kind, just when they're told well.

That is quite a shame that you think that way, since Persona 4, and 3 to a lesser extent, have some of the best writing in most video games. I don't understand how the interpersonal collisions grate you even though those collisions add so much depth to the characterization of the characters that make them have so much emotional impact near the end than any of Matsuno's work. Not saying the teenagers in Persona are any real than what actual teenagers act like, it's just the emotional connection is what's real. Like, whenever I see someone die in either of the Tactics games I'm like, "Um, wait who was that guy again and why should I care?" Not to say I'm right and your wrong, that's just how I feel.

Do not mistake your desire for smaller scale stories as the metric for determining what is and isn't told well.  War and Peace isn't exactly Harry Potter or The Hunger Games, but I don't think Tolstoy was aiming to write a teenage drama.  There's nothing wrong with disliking large scale stories, but they aren't badly written just because the director didn't feel like informing you what a character's favorite ramen flavor is.
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DrGonzo
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« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2014, 03:46:30 PM »

Do not mistake your desire for smaller scale stories as the metric for determining what is and isn't told well.  War and Peace isn't exactly Harry Potter or The Hunger Games, but I don't think Tolstoy was aiming to write a teenage drama.  There's nothing wrong with disliking large scale stories, but they aren't badly written just because the director didn't feel like informing you what a character's favorite ramen flavor is.
It certainly adds a lot more to a smaller scale story with lots of character development that makes the characters feel more like actual characters than a larger scale one with none of those qualities whatsoever.
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blackthirteen
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« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2014, 04:10:05 PM »

It definitely looks solid, and from the creator of Final Fantasy Tactics there's no doubt it's going to be a successful KickStarter campaign. I'm surprised to see most other staff members are Caucasian rather than Japanese.

Now it's time for Mistwalker to KickStarter a RPG project before we never hear from them again.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:12:16 PM by blackthirteen » Logged
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