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Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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Author Topic: New "Secret Of Mana" for home consoles on the way  (Read 790 times)
Annubis
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« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2014, 08:16:28 PM »

Hmmmm... I'm confused. I thought I had played a Mana game but it's not in that list.

It was on PS1 and had terrible shitty 3D graphics (a la FF7) and a combo system kind of like Xenogears.
The game was really bad and I never finished it.

Now I'm wondering what I played and why I thought it was a Mana game.
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Mickeymac92
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« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2014, 08:19:44 PM »

^Sounds like it was probably Threads of Fate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4pxy2y43c
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Annubis
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2014, 08:24:16 PM »

^Sounds like it was probably Threads of Fate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4pxy2y43c

Nope, battle weren't on the field. (Think FF7 again, switch to battle, then back to the map)
And the 3D looked waaaaaaaay worst than that.
I think the main character was a guy also.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 08:26:01 PM by Annubis » Logged
Agent D.
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2014, 08:33:52 PM »

^Sounds like it was probably Threads of Fate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4pxy2y43c

Nope, battle weren't on the field. (Think FF7 again, switch to battle, then back to the map)
And the 3D looked waaaaaaaay worst than that.
I think the main character was a guy also.
Sounds like Legend of Legaia.
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Annubis
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2014, 08:42:06 PM »

Sounds like Legend of Legaia.

Youtubed it and yup, that's the one.
I guess it's because it had "Legend of" in the title.
The me of 15 years ago looks pretty stupid to the me of right now.
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Lard
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2014, 04:12:32 AM »

No one can blame you for forgetting a game as forgettable as Legend of Legaia
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Aeolus
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2014, 05:50:01 AM »

I'll say the World of Mana games tended towards being just eh, but what's really annoying is they all just needed a bit more work. Except Children of Mana. That one actually felt complete but it was so basic, and the plot was nothing special. Heroes of Mana actually had a really good plot, but it was blatantly a tech demo for Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings. And Dawn of Mana...that really needed gameplay polish, and maybe changing the level up system so that you still collect the tokens, but you don't start from square one every single area.

When you put the whole series together, though, the Mana Goddess is incredibly weak and incompetent. Or Mana Goddesses I guess. They keep dying and the one time she actually does something active, it results in the Scion of Mana and a Mana Storm threatening the entire world. Hell, she only directly gives the Mana Sword to someone maybe once. Otherwise, the characters keep finding it stuck in a random stump somewhere.

Children had that stupid physics thing that Dawn had that made fighting enemies doing anything in that game a royal pain in the ass at points (particularly in rooms filled with spikes, ice, and other obnoxious floor tiles). The idea was to get your allies to knock enemies towards you so that you can then knock them towards your other allies and so on, but of course this ignores the obvious flaw of having four people dumb enough to actually sink money on this game in close proximity to each other (especially since the game had absolutely nothing else going for it). The plot being a direct sequel to Dawn doesn't help matters since it's only a sequel in a chronological sense (the only returning character that isn't a series mainstay was the evil Sword of Mana from Dawn, because there's a totally evil Sword of Mana now). Out of all the action dungeon crawlers on the DS, Children is probably the second worst of them all.

Heroes was magnificently dumb since its an RTS made with Squeenix's difficulty design philosophy of 'give everything bigger numbers' (granted, due to the nature of the game and it's wonderful pathfinding, the only other option would have been to go for a Starcraft style Zerg Rush). And while the game tries to pretend that its an RPG, its not and your characters and units will get left behind in the power curve, either slowly or rapidly depending on how aware you are about the treasures hidden on every map and how much effort you expend in getting them and the ranked treasure. It's also a prequel to SD3 which wouldn't be so bad, if SD3 had ever left Japan properly (at least it got a fanslation). And it also used the now defunct DS WiFi to access bonus missions to grind for gear in (in other words, you can no longer grind in a game that basically requires grinding).

Friends never came out here, and I've already talked about Dawn (but I will add that you can get around the whole 'start every chapter at level 1' thing with the game's medals, but anything beyond the most absolute basic stuff is a pain in the ass to get).
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« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2014, 05:26:00 PM »

I heard that your stats didn't actually do anything in Secret of Mana, most of the stats in SD3 didn't really do anything, and my experience with disassembling LoM's battle engine has lead me to the same conclusion there -- basically LoM and SoM only seem to use weapon power, armor power, and experience level for all damage calculations.

This begs two questions:

1. How many other JRPGs kludge things like this?
2. Is this new Mana game going to have functioning stats?
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« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2014, 05:47:43 PM »

 Kind of reminds me of ff6. Though I don't think it did nothing your strength seemed pretty inconsequential. You'd like put on a hyper wrist and up it 50% and not really notice a difference. It was all about your weapon and character level. The magic stat helped though.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2014, 06:00:53 PM »

Kind of reminds me of ff6. Though I don't think it did nothing your strength seemed pretty inconsequential. You'd like put on a hyper wrist and up it 50% and not really notice a difference. It was all about your weapon and character level. The magic stat helped though.

Now hold on a sec. Sabin with a hyper wrist and high str meant pummel did extreme damage. I think I remember reading somewhere though that magic defense in VI had a really bleh calculation which gave magic power an easier time in inflicting higher damage.
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Annubis
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« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2014, 06:48:59 PM »

Kind of reminds me of ff6. Though I don't think it did nothing your strength seemed pretty inconsequential. You'd like put on a hyper wrist and up it 50% and not really notice a difference. It was all about your weapon and character level. The magic stat helped though.

Now hold on a sec. Sabin with a hyper wrist and high str meant pummel did extreme damage. I think I remember reading somewhere though that magic defense in VI had a really bleh calculation which gave magic power an easier time in inflicting higher damage.

Early and mid game, most enemies have shit MDEF. It's only later that you'll meet stuff that's stronger against magic than physical.
The only real defence against magic is element resistance.
Sabin's Aura Cannon (with 2x earring for power up) is nice since it's holy (and pretty much nothing for the longest time resists holy), unavoidable AND ignores MDEF.
Then later there's Fire Dance and Wind Slice for manaless magical AoE. At the end there's Bum Rush which is also a magical attack that ignores MDEF.
As completely opposite as it looks, Sabin is a much better mage than physical fighter.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2014, 12:08:33 AM »

It's true, all his best moves are purely magic damage. But I stand by a str build sabin cuz forward back forward commands make pummel easy to pull off on even the most decrepit d-pad.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2014, 01:11:17 AM »

But Cyan can match Pummel with Dispatch and can pull it off slightly faster too. You might as well dump all your Vigor+ Espers onto him.


I heard that your stats didn't actually do anything in Secret of Mana, most of the stats in SD3 didn't really do anything, and my experience with disassembling LoM's battle engine has lead me to the same conclusion there -- basically LoM and SoM only seem to use weapon power, armor power, and experience level for all damage calculations.

This begs two questions:

1. How many other JRPGs kludge things like this?
2. Is this new Mana game going to have functioning stats?

I think Strength does have an effect in SoM considering that your attack stat was derided from a combination of both Strength and the weapon's might. Other than that though, you're probably right. Poison in SoM only ever does 10HP worth of damage to you and I can't imagine how M.Evade ever comes into play.

That said, I feel like its more like the case of FFVI's Stamina stat where its only use is to determine the amount of HP Seizure/Regen take from/give to you. It's also the reason why I like the FE series so much> All those numbers matter and work in ways that can be calculated off the top of your head, no fuzzy logic or guesswork required.

As for your second question, I suspect the answer will be no. Only the first Mana game ever really had functioning stats and those were still glorified Attack, Defense, Magic, and Speed stats.
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