Author Topic: Complete: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)

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Dice

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Complete: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« on: September 28, 2014, 03:49:00 AM »
*Completed~!!


All "main" posts:
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg343208#msg343208 This post!  The beginning
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg344442#msg344442 Gaia World Tour (part 1); Farms and Presidents
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg343552#msg343552 Gaia World Tour (part 2); Prisons and Hippies
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg345177#msg345177 Gaia World Tour (part 3); Rockets and Wutai
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg345543#msg345543 Aeris' Death, North Crater
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg345881#msg345881 Post-Meteor Summon to Fixing Cloud
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg346151#msg346151 Cloud Returns, Land, Sea, Sky, and Sidequests
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg346736#msg346736 Midgar Recap & 'Return to' Segment
http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14423.msg350801#msg350801 Finale



NOT my first time playing; but now that I'm older and wiser I hope to go in with a more fulfilling experience out of it.

SO FAR:
In which we begin a final journey...for the seventh time... Or something.  We start FF7.


= Graphics aside, the entire begininng segment, the "Bombing Mission" is absolutely perfect in concept.

= I wonder if anyone in the slums were angry or jealous of Aeris' massive 'estate'.  Seriously, that place is perfect.  There's even a waterfall in the back (wtf)?

=
Quote
Aeris: Is Tifa....a girl?
Quote
Cloud: >No >>Yeah *click*
Quote
Aeris: Oh, that's nice.  So that's nice.
>___>  Jealousy is ugly or the translation is spotty and prone to some strange writing.  It'd have been great if the PSX games could get a reworked translation for their steam releases.

= Aw, why did the FF titles stop their crazy amounts of cursing in the games?  Barret [and Cid] are hilarious in that "Dennis Leary way".

= I love love love the fuck out of the Menu Portraits.  The high contrast and blue shadowing is gorgeous to look at.  For as much as I love FF9, the rough CG portraits didn't have the same effect on me.  But also, since the game's graphics really aren't that good, I find them the *best* representation of how the characters look (that "image" of them you see in your mind).


UPDATE 2:
(in which we infiltrate the big bad government till something fucky happens)



= Shinra Top Floor
Quote
Rufus: Who are you guys?
Quote
Cloud: Former SOLDIER First Class!
Barret: AVALANCHE Member!
Tifa: Same here!
Aeris: ...Flower girl from the slums
Red VIII: A research specimen!
Rufus: *shrug*

And our motley crew to save the world nears completion.

= Rufus is the fucking coolest.  Anything stands up against him, he'd mow it down.  Hell, he's in Advent Children somehow despite getting blasted in the face in this game....!

= Honestly, the whole Shinra building is *awesome* as far as dungeons go.  Each floor mostly has some new gimmick to advance it.  FUCK I MISS OLD RPGs.  Optional entry (stairs, always the stairs), climbing through vents, finding an ultimate weapon, watching the President set up as a "big bad" only to get killed, etc.  Shinra HQ (and all of Midgar really) is a solid experience.

= One thing I hate as Cloud as the lead character is being stuck with his annoyingly spikey do and bland colouring almost the entire game.  I love the colours of the rest the team.  Ah well.

= I don't get how this game has an awesome and fast battle system, but the next two installments just got slower.

= I've never appreciated her in previous runs; but fuck Aeris, I'm flirting with Tifa -- she deserves the love (meanwhile I feel like an ass for not pursuing Aeris when the game implies it much, much more).  I actually love that Cloud's affection for Aeris helps defrost him, and it doesn't feel too pressured or one-sided at all.  They kinda just...dug each other.  <3  
But Tifa all the way.  Also, her limit break is pretty handy.

= I never understood: Why did Hojo throw Aeris and Red VIII together??  What interest was he to Hojo?  How did he grab him?  The whole thing is pretty peculiar.  
Also, for the last surviving unicorn Ancient and super valuable research subject, Shinra sure treats Aeris like shit.

Till next time,



« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 06:22:21 PM by Dice »
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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 03:53:26 AM »
How do i bring Aeris back to life?


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Dice

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 04:06:30 AM »
How do i bring Aeris back to life?

Cast Life.

Unfortunately, Rosa f**king misses it half the time.
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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2014, 09:32:58 AM »
Oh my, I may have started a trend :) Have fun!
NOW PLAYING:
I can't tell you

Cyril

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2014, 09:46:33 AM »
Oooh, I'm glad you mentioned the menu portraits.  They're just gorgeous in FFVII. VIII and X (the other games with drawn portraits) just don't compare. VIII and X tend to have long neck syndrome as well, something VII avoided. 

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 07:04:13 PM »
Oh my, I may have started a trend :) Have fun!

Sorry for copying.  It's for love and game.  And because you had a good idea when I wanted 'more attention' covering a 'classic'.

Oooh, I'm glad you mentioned the menu portraits.  They're just gorgeous in FFVII. VIII and X (the other games with drawn portraits) just don't compare. VIII and X tend to have long neck syndrome as well, something VII avoided.  

Honestly, since the graphics "were what they were" at the time I thought they were the best and only really impressive representation of the characters for the title (future versions of them aside on the PS2 and in CG film).

I wonder... if FF7 were to be remade, would they go full-realism like Advent children or that in-between like Crisis Core was?  But honestly, I'd take the compromise.  A remaster with less shitty character models and HD'd pre-rendered backgrounds.





Leaving Midgar and off to Kalm for a long, long Flashback
Quote
In which we listen to a story of how things got fucky

= I love the transition from a highway escape in the high-tech Midgar to... Kalm, a town that looks (and sounds) like a nostalgic throwback to the last six Final Fantasy titles.  ...What with its extremely quaint look and calming music.

= Kalm cutscene takes forever.  So long it has an intermission!   But it's damn good.  

= One thing that's really getting to me this time around is the amount of foreshadowing during the Nibelheim Incident.  The fact that parts of Cloud's story isn't recalled well really makes this more than a simple "flashback" you have to sit through.  And I like that the party kind-of intervenes with the story because of minor issues and needs for clarification.  

=  Also, knowing the "big twist" makes it interesting to talk to that one "anonymous" blue-clad soldier.
Cloud is great at believing his own bullshit though.

= Why does the memory take him out of the bar when you go in?  Was it just cuz it didn't happen (and you, the player, are making it happen)?

= Any reason people in Nibelheim treat him like ass when he gets there too?  Is it just general Shinra hate?  I mean, I know the trees are dying and Hojo is doing some creepy shit up in the mountains; but the place hardly feels welcoming.

= Yeah I took the "Orthpedic underwear".  What could that possibly even do for someone??  (and do I wanna know?).

= Anyone have any thoughts on the letter in Tifa's room?  Who wrote it and why?  Or is it just to provide some "worldly context"?  
I like fan speculation sometimes.

= I also like that Cloud got a "younger" Menu Portrait where he looks more hot-blooded and facial features are rounder (like his less-pointy chin and bigger eyes) than his older portrait.  He also acts a bit more like a younger, eager idiot.



= I love when you meet Sephiroth in the basement when he goes nuts, the drums sound like a heart beat.  His crazy-walk is also kind of intimidating.

= The Makonoids are a severely underplayed and [wonderfully] creepy part of this game.  What a shame.


= So... I'm confused, is Jenova an Ancient?  Why does she look like that then?  What are the other Ancients compared to her and why the turmoil?  I always thought Jevonva was...basically a female Lavos (with an eye on her breast).  How is Sephiroth related to her (since his real mum is locked up in a waterfall).

= Just this scene.... wow


= So what does the "Fan think?  Is Barret a racist representation of a black man or simply fitting the stereotype for "angry black man" (with a heart of gold)?  I'm on the fence here; his cursing and love for his adopted daughter Marlene tickle me in the right ways.  But on the other hand, he looks like Mr. T (wait, that might be another thing I find amusing).  
Either way, I'm *all* for greater racial diversity in games.  Sazh was like one of three characters I liked in the FF13 saga (though the similarities between he and Barret are interesting)

Till the next one...!
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Klutz64

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 07:39:32 PM »
I love the villains in FFVII. One of my favorite things about the game is the fact that as much as Sephiroth is played up, there really is no "Main Villain." Shinra, Hojo, Jenova, Sephiroth... they all had to play their part to make the plot play out as it did.

Cyril

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2014, 07:42:02 PM »
Loving this, Dice. I agree with the Kalm flashback.  It's a beautiful piece of storytelling.  FFVII in general absolutely nails unreliable narrator in a way I don't think any other game has. That being said, the flashback almost always makes me quit the game because, despite being wonderful from a narrative perspective, it's terribly, horribly boring to play through.  Well, that and I tend to enjoy the Midgar section of the game most and lose interest after that.

About Jenova, she is absolutely, 100% not an Ancient.  Though there's quite a bit of theory about what "she" might have been (a virus, for example), it is clear she isn't an Ancient.  For that matter, FFVII is truly sci-fi; the Ancients themselves are aliens and not native to the planet FFVII takes place on.

As for Barret, I see him as an extremely interesting character. Cursing aside, other than Cloud and Tifa he goes through the most character development in the game.  He's very conflicted about what he does, which starts showing up early on.  One thing to keep in mind was that AVALANCHE was actually a violent terrorist group and as the game goes on he begins to hate himself for his actions to the point where he gnaws away at himself.  Keep in mind how he reacts to Dyne and you'll see what I mean. He definitely falls more under "Atoner" than "brute with a heart of gold."  It's a bit sad, because even in AC he doesn't entitely live the way he wishes. After all, Marlene is still with Tifa.

I certainly don't see him as a mindless cliche, there was clearly a lot of thought put into his character.

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 08:18:10 PM »
Accessing memories of FF7...
WARNING - File corrupted, last save dated: 12 years ago.

Ok, if I remember right, Jenovah is an alien that fell on Earth.
It was pretty much scientific curiosity that pushed them to try and recreate it as the original was already dead.
This is why there is a lot of talk about Jenovah cells since that's what they've been able to clone.
That armor/statue thing isn't really Jenovah. It's just some container for what they've managed to make up to now.
Sephiroth has Jenovah cells, but I don't remember what the goal of doing so was (that and the 1000s of clones/cult)

EDIT: yay! the peeps on Neogaf agree with my memory.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 10:03:08 PM by Annubis »

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2014, 11:39:04 PM »
I'm almost positive that what exactly JENOVA is has never been officially confirmed.  All we know is that she's foreign and definitely not an Ancient.

But really, does it need to be?  In a case like this, interpretation makes it far more interesting.

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 01:27:46 AM »
JENOVA was basically to FFVII what Midiclorians were to Parasite Eve (and Phantom Menace). Sci-Fi technobabble bullshit as to why there's magic, monsters, and superheroes/villains running amok. Kinda like how Nanomachines, Parallel Dimensions and Genetic Engineering are to today's Sci-Fi technobabble bullshit.

Especially when you consider just how many times Hojo starts an experiment that also ends with the insertion of JENOVA cells.

Otherwise, yeah. She/It is implicitly implied to be a space alien given the fact that North Crater and the Planet's formation of the WEAPONs were a direct result of her/it's arrival.

What's important to keep in mind about the Kalm flashback is that Cloud isn't the only one who's taking the wrong thing away from the incident. Sephiroth was going off of Hojo's notes during the event at the time, and as the game wears on, it becomes quite evident that Hojo doesn't really have a fucking clue as to what he's talking about or really doing. In the end, both Hojo and Sephiroth wind up pulling each other's strings as Hojo lets Hojo Jr. run off with his prize specimen as he really wants to see what the outcome of Sephy's rampage with her/it, while Sephiroth basically knows that Sephy Sr. was way off the mark, that he's his daddy's biggest accomplishment and just how far he'll go to aid his own ambitions for the sake of seeing the results.

But otherwise, the Kalm Flashback is probably one of the better examples of a flashback done in videogames due to the way its handled, the way it takes advantage of the inherent strength of the video game medium and the way the plot ties into it (and the fact that it really doesn't have a lot of worth competitors).

As for the game's handling of Barret, I don't think the localization did him any justice by trying to make him like B.A. Baracus. Granted, the effect was memorable due to the cheeziness and tone-deaf nature of the caricature, but it really speaks of the juvenile nature of how localizations and the video game industry were back in the day (and to a certain respect, still are today). That said, I can see why the translator/localizer went with that due to the fucked up nature of the game's plot/flow. Seriously, the entire Midgar section is one big Cyberpunk homage/cluster of crazy shit like the Honey Bee Inn and Sector 6 in general, but once you get out of that, suddenly the entire tone of the game changes to the more conventional FF formula and only occasionally looks back (namely whenever Shinra's top mooks are involved). The dude probably committed to the idea early on, and slowly phased it out once the tone changed with the occasional lapse for effect/spicing up what was probably dry source material.
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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 01:35:19 AM »
Did Jenova have anything to do with magic, monsters, superheroes or villians? If anything was the equvilent to midoclorians it's the Lifestream, aka Mako energy aka the plants life force.


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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2014, 01:58:04 AM »
What's important to keep in mind about the Kalm flashback is that Cloud isn't the only one who's taking the wrong thing away from the incident. Sephiroth was going off of Hojo's notes during the event at the time, and as the game wears on, it becomes quite evident that Hojo doesn't really have a fucking clue as to what he's talking about or really doing. In the end, both Hojo and Sephiroth wind up pulling each other's strings as Hojo lets Hojo Jr. run off with his prize specimen as he really wants to see what the outcome of Sephy's rampage with her/it, while Sephiroth basically knows that Sephy Sr. was way off the mark, that he's his daddy's biggest accomplishment and just how far he'll go to aid his own ambitions for the sake of seeing the results.

I think this is what is the most terrifying about Hojo.  He took a nosedive into completely unknown scientific (or, scientific/magic/magitek whatever) territory and tossed aside any moral quandaries towards life itself that might have held back his progress. The utter apathy towards his subjects - including the planet - paired with him assuming he understands something as powerful as the Planet and JENOVA makes him the cause of almost every single problem in the game. And he does this all with science and because he wants to see what will happen, not out of any specific intentions or agenda.

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2014, 02:20:47 AM »
Hojo himself represents the vilest and darkest side of human thirst for knowledge. When humans created the atomic bomb, there were concerns that such a weapon would ignite the entire biosphere of the planet, but the people behind it detonated it anyway, and said afterwards "I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." It is a very real fear (and possibility) that the pursuit of such knowledge, even in the name of scientific curiosity, will be humankind's undoing, because one day we will unleash the evils of Pandora's Box upon the world through our desire to know more.

Did Jenova have anything to do with magic, monsters, superheroes or villians? If anything was the equvilent to midoclorians it's the Lifestream, aka Mako energy aka the plants life force.

When they first discovered Jenova, Shinra thought they had the remains of a Cetra on their hands, a race that was one with the planet. In truth, what they actually found were the Cetra's mortal enemy, a space virus that laid waste to the planet and decimated the Cetra's population before they could contain it. What I find interesting is the planet's reaction: the Weapons were ostensibly living weapons created as a final safeguard for the planet to protect itself against Jenova; it was only the Cetra's timely intervention that prevented their awakening. This is why when Jenova was revived completely in the middle of disc 2, the Weapons activated and went apeshit. However, instead of going right at Jenova, they went after MANKIND. Jenova was an invader from space and yet the Weapons went after organisms that were part of the planet's natural ecosystem. Were humans a bigger threat than Jenova? Was it because they couldn't leave well enough alone and would one day create a monstrosity even worse than Jenova? Did the Weapons want to polish off the humans first before taking care of Jenova because they represented a greater threat to the natural order of the planet?

Questions to consider.

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Re: Dice plays FF7 (Sponsored by Maxx)
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2014, 02:37:52 AM »
Yeah I know that, but Jenova wasn't the source of magic right? She was unrealted. the WEAPONS may have been created to stop Jenova, but they were made by the planet, so the source is still the Lifestream.


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