Dincrest plays Chrono Cross (and Chrono Trigger DS) PlayLog

[Aeolus]

I'm cool with most of the updates, notably "soup" being alcohol (skull smash) and everyone getting drunk at Ayla's party (except Robo).  I also like that Ayla's caveman speak is toned down, because she is the chief and the most intelligent caveman, but still a caveman speaking in "me Grimlock" fashion.

But things like a medieval character speaking in present day syntax rather than olde English, or Chrono's mom referring to the talking frog as "sir knight" rather than Mister Toad kill the immersion, detract from the storyline and require logical rigmarole to justify.  Ayla can speak caveman yet Frog doesn't speak knightly? 

I get that some things need to be updated or rethought to reflect the times, but not at the expense of making logical sense.  To bring in a characteristic Dincrest food analogy, some old family recipes could use some tweaking to make them better, but other old family recipes are perfect the way they are and should remain unchanged.

You're missing my point entirely. Nerds have a tendency to refuse or hate on change regardless to whatever effect it might have because Nerd culture is incredibly insular and self-gratifying.

As is with the case of the 'Subs versus Dubs' argument. You have one group arguing to 'keep it as it is' and another group trying to 'restore the original cultural purity' regardless of the continuity errors, bad grammar, dated cultural references, the limitations of the original line or the views of the culture of origin. Both groups argue incessantly over the issue while completely oblivious to the advantages of the other option or even the possibility of a third option.

To borrow from recent examples, nobody's gonna argue that Miracle of 34th Street 90's Edition blows chunks (hell, most Christmas movies tend to due to over-commercialization of the season and how utterly white milquetoast the families involved typically are), but Ye Olde Knavelish is also corny as hell (as nobody outside of a Renaissance Fair ever talks like that).

[Goblin Shark]

I get your point.  You don't need to preach about the insular nature of subcultures, nerd or otherwise.  I saw head-up-the-ass levels of insularity big time in the local punk scene, when I used to gig.  And I fully admit to my own head-up-the-ass tendencies.  We all have those.

I think the closer analogy in the case of Trigger DS is how some of the ways Lucas updated the classic Star Wars movies, while well-intentioned due to technology finally being able to catch up with his creative vision, were not always successful.

I couldn't care less about insignificant trifles like whether Greedo shot first in New Hope; and I liked the additional footage fleshing out Han's backstory with Jabba.  But when Luke sees the ghosts of Yodi, Kenobi, and Anakin at the end of Jedi, why is the new ghost of Anakin Hayden Chrstiansen rather than the redeemed Vader that Luke unmasked?  Makes no damn sense and would require conspiracy theory logic-leaps to explain how it "should" make sense.  It's as if Lucas got stuck inside his own head.  

And I mentioned instances where the updated DS localization did things right in Trigger.  But I still think they dropped the ball with Frog. Okay, I suppose I can live with him not saying "thou hath," but Chrono's mom not calling him Mr. Toad took away the humor of that scene and felt like a joke that forgot its punchline.

EDIT: ...On that note, I should probably check myself before I need to be committed to the Please Please Please Get a Life Foundation: https://youtu.be/lNJ6dFwh8a4?t=27

EDIT2: Progress report.

Trigger DS: I beat Slash without much drama.  However, Flea had me on the ropes quite a bit, so I want to build levels and TP so Robo gets his party-heal technique.  This way I have options and flexibility for both offense and healing.

Cross: I went to Blue Dragon island in Home World.  I remembered that I fought the dwarf tank but couldn't remember if I fought the dragon too, so I swapped out Razzly and Kid for Leena and Poshul for better element resistance.  I dismantled the tank, got Ice Breath from the dragon, and Rosetta gave Razzly a Wisp Cape.  Now, I'm in Mt. Pyre in Another World.  Tanky Poshul is a great bullet sponge and Leena is no slouch either.  Heavier hitter than Kid or Razzly.  I might roll with them a bit, for variety. 

[Artimicia]

Chrono Cross... that was quite a game, I'm not sure I ever actually finished it... maybe once...

I definitely have thought of battling with it, it'd have to go up something very worthy though, very hard to think of what that might be...

[Arvis]

Chrono Cross is one of my Top 10 Best Games Ever.  Maybe Top 5.

[Frostillicus]

Cross sure gets a lot of love. I want to like it more, but what keeps it from being one of my own favorites is:

• The game feels very backtrack-y. Especially the 2nd half. No secret that's a HUGE turn off for me.
• You are forced to be Lynx for way too long.
• Even though the game features some of the best music I've ever heard in a video game, the regular battle theme is straight up awful.

Just my take, of course. Not game-breaking cons, but enough to keep it from the top for me.

*Still, I will say it's an RPG everyone should play, at least once. There is still plenty about it to warrant checking it out.

[Goblin Shark]

My biggest issue with Chrono Cross (as mentioned several times in this playlog) was that the recruitment of Starkey was mishandled.  And I agree that the regular battle theme, while a nice piece, isn't the best battle theme.  I still prefer it to FF6's regular battle theme, though.  FF6 was another game where the soundtrack was damn near perfect... except for a bloody awful battle theme. 

[Arvis]

First of all, WHAT THE HECK is wrong with the FFVI battle theme??  I've always liked it!

Second of all:

My biggest issue with Chrono Cross was that the recruitment of Starkey was mishandled.

You must have seriously loved Chrono Cross!

[Rucks]

First of all, WHAT THE HECK is wrong with the FFVI battle theme??  I've always liked it!

This

[Goblin Shark]

My favorite regular battle theme of the 16-bit FFs is FFV's by a longshot.  VI's was just dissonant to me and not at all pleasant to listen to.  I like what I like, plain and simple. 

And you bet I loved Chrono Cross.  I think the 15ish pages of playlogging and waxing philosophical here prove that. 

[Arvis]

I like what I like, plain and simple.

"Let me explain, at length, why you're wrong to feel this way...." - Everyone On The Internet

[Klutz64]

In Dincrest's defense, while I do not dislike the FFVI battle theme, it is one of the most unremarkable pieces of battle music in the entire franchise IMO

[Goblin Shark]

The regular battle theme is the music you hear the most often in an RPG, so given that I already found FFVI's unpleasant to listen to, compound that with having to hear it over and over again... *shuddercringe*

Now THIS I had no problem listening to every few seconds: 
(FFV's battle theme, which is hands-down my favorite of the 16-bit FF battle themes.) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nevXskA7zq8 (SNES version)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFW4VlvYA7o (GBA version... dat BASS!)

As for Chrono Cross, I said it somewhere before in the thread that once I adjusted my mindset to accept the game for what it truly is rather than expect Trigger 2.0 and fit a square peg into a round hole, I grew to really love the game for its ambitious and often unrestrained creativity.  The game dared to be different, flew in the face of many conventions, and is the antithesis of Trigger in many regards.  But that's what makes it special.  Trigger was special because it broke a lot of conventions and Cross did as well. 

I linked to the whole "beautiful melancholy" editorial a few times in this thread, as it so eloquently verbalizes my sentiments. 

I'd love to see an HD Director's Cut remaster of Chrono Cross.  Yeah, I said it 100,000,000 times before and I just said it again.  More than almost anything, Chrono Cross and Xenogears would totally benefit from HD Director's Cut remaster treatment. 

[Goblin Shark]

So, since I've finished my current review commitments for the site, re-read pretty much all my comic books, and my Kindle decided to breathe its last... I had some downtime to play more Chrono Trigger.  I beat Magus using Chrono, Frog, and Robo.  Thanks to Frog and Robo having party healing techniques and the trio's triple-tech doing massive damage, Magus was not as challenging as I remember him being. 

Anyway, I really wanted to see what happened to another classic line in this updated localization.  Instead of saying "Yummy frog, for Ayla eat?" Alya says, "Big frog present?  For Ayla eat?"  I can live with that, since I like that Ayla's primitive speech is more eloquent than her tribe's, since she is the big chief and by extension the smartest of the cave people.  I'm still not too happy about Frog not speaking in medieval "thou hath" (despite his dialogue being noble sounding) nor Chrono's mom calling Frog "Sir Knight" instead of "Mr. Toad."  On the other hand, the party scene was an upgrade what with soup becoming skull-smash (clearly an alcoholic beverage, by Robo's calculations), Lucca denying getting all white-girl-wasted, and Ayla being massively hung over the next day.  I'm pretty sure I mentioned this before. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhtYPQwEvMI

UPDATE: I had some downtime and played a bit more.  I defeated Nizbel 2, Azala, and Black Tyrano.  Black Tyrano was more a battle of attrition than anything else.  I used Chrono, Frog, and Ayla.  The Frog-Ayla double-techs of Slurp Kiss and Bubble Hit were the besty. So now, Chrono, Frog, and Ayla are in the Magic Kingdom.  I thought it was funny when the trio encountered Janus and his cat, Ayla asked if the cat was edible. 

Now that I've seen the update of Alya's "Yummy frog" line, I'm done.  I don't need to play Chrono Trigger any more.  I've already played it countless times.