Author Topic: The tri-Ace General Discussion (& Star Ocean 5) Thread  (Read 219101 times)

Yggdrasil

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #150 on: April 21, 2015, 04:50:40 PM »
Which is why at the very least, sir, you were dead on with your comment :)

Of course he was. Of course. lol.

Klutz64

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #151 on: April 21, 2015, 05:07:02 PM »
Why is everyone being so passive-aggressive over such a mundane misinterpretation?

I am literally very confused how such a harmless discussion took this turn.

Dincrest

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #152 on: April 21, 2015, 05:11:00 PM »
And it all stemmed from the character design.  Love it or hate it, I must say that it is a smashing success because everyone's getting so heated about it and talking about it.  Whether it's Miki's odd face or Checkers' pom-pom wrists, or whatnot.  

No such thing as bad controversy or bad publicity, right?  Better to be hated than be forgotten?

I'm not sold on the character designs either.  Maybe they'll grow on me.  But I'd rather these kinds of choices that get people talking than mundane "play it safe" character designs that we'll forget by tomorrow.  

EDIT: And it's interesting how we're decrying SO5's and FF15's character design choices for damn near opposite reasons. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 05:13:23 PM by Dincrest »
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Klutz64

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #153 on: April 21, 2015, 05:21:43 PM »
From what I follow:

Agent D: "I like character customization."
Yggdrasil: "I don't think character creation is viable in every JRPG"
MickeyMac: "I think he meant more customization than outright creation"
Agent D: "That's right"
Yggdrasil: "How dare you tell him he's right! But my last point still stands anyway."
MickeyMac: "Well your post that addresses my point clearly shows you didn't get my point. [long-form argument]"
Yggdrasil: "[appropriate gif responding to address snide response] But you make some good points, but I still disagree"
Agent D: [Strangest way of saying "I agree" in the universe]
Yggdrasil: "You would agree with him, wouldn't you?"

Is anyone else seeing how odd this conversation has gone? \

Mickeymac92

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #154 on: April 21, 2015, 05:22:10 PM »
I do agree with various points that you make, but regardless my mentality on this is more relate to design rather than the idiosyncrasies of the genre. Hope I'm being clear by saying that but you know what they say about arguments and counterarguments.

Of course I don't get it, because you're being incredibly vague. I'm not a designer. I can try to think like one, and those points were the best I could come up with. At the very least, there's no practical reason I could come up with outside of development length. I could come up with prima-donna-level excuses for not doing it, like "it's my character, I need them to be certain way!" (Except it's an interactive story and the player has to control them), you know, stuff that makes it sound like they wanted to design an anime and not a video game...but I'm not willing to accept that as a good reason. [EDIT: Since I'm sure I didn't word this well, I meant that example to be specific to a degree, as in the designer feeling that the character is theirs prevents them from allowing others to alter it. That isn't a good reason because the designer could add more designs to their character - design more clothes and hair styles. They don't have to be static. People change over time, so why wouldn't their looks change as well? It'd still be your design, and it would allow them to flex their brain a little more.  Now, if certain aspects were important to the story, i.e. he always wears the goggles his friend gave him to remember him by and urge him on? Then yeah, it's important to keep that consistant. But there are still ways around that to allow for other customization options. They don't have to go full D&D-level character creator in order for the player to feel like they have options as far as appearance goes.]

However, I am open to different points of view. If you can come up with specific examples or ideas, I'm willing to listen.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 05:40:22 PM by Mickeymac92 »

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Yggdrasil

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #155 on: April 21, 2015, 05:34:46 PM »
@Dincrest: I'm not against either Final Fantasy XV or Star Ocean 5 character designs personally. Like I said before, is the transition of 2D to 3D and the overall look of the game itself with SO5 that I have sort of an issue with, but is not the biggest deal on my end. Besides, complaining about Star Ocean's anime aesthetic is, if anything, ironic at this point to be honest.

Dice

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #156 on: April 21, 2015, 06:08:48 PM »
It's weird to say that despite the level of talent put into the SO5 graphics, the Tales series "gets it better" despite usually coming up short graphically.  Star Ocean 4 and 5 tried to inject too much realism into what are essentially anime characters (or even better: CARTOON characters) and it's creating an uncanny valley that's, I'm guessing, why people feel weird about the graphics beyond their personal preference for anime.  The Tales series is simply trying to resemble anime than even attempt any serious level of photorealism.  But SO5 has these "out there" designs and a clashing realism+anime aesthetic that's just somewhat juxtaposing and awkward to look at (Here's a beautiful and realistic environment...and a girl with no nose!).  


I will give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure doing anime in 3D is infuriating to work with (and probably why SO3's models look good some time and trout-lipped the other half), I definitely thought they did an expertly job with Resonance of Fate though:


The same sort of happened with the Tin Tin movie, Mars Needs Moms, Polar Express, or even the Peanuts Movie having adorable Snoopy and his goofy dog face with...realistic fur.  The fact the "uncanny valley" has a name and a definition I think speaks enough to, maybe not the 'why', but that images and representation simply DO matter.  It's just funny that we often do draw this line at some point and for whatever reason. (here's actually a pretty cool article about that)

...which is a bit of a shame; I think a game usually nails nature and environment aesthetic more often, but our eyes are fixated on the people....

But Din, Klutz, sort of what you're getting into, I think the point is that this IS extremely nuanced, subjective, and where the slightest thing is presenting 'a bother'.  I mean look at Miki's commentary thus far: There's some who despise it, some who adore it, and some saying that a small adjustment to her eyes or nose or whatever else would appease their woes about her. *shrug*
As for the design's themselves; Miki's cute but her face looks like a burn victim that got the skin transplant (okay, I'm being overly mean here), that stupid design for the witch which is almost the epitome of "attention whore", the Kirito Clone, and the sort of blocked swordsman who, by all other counts, looks pretty tame and 'alright'.

But hey, let's talk about the rest real quick: I definitely think that other than tri-Ace's once reputation and the starved JRPG gamers in need of a new fix, a lot is working against this game right now till more details come to light or, obviously, when the game is released (and hpefully we'll hear some overseas news about that sooner than later).

Ah well, here's hoping they animate better than Star Ocean 4 where they basically had one emotion + some eyebrow wiggling to demonstrate their feeling.  Xenoblade or even FF12 may look like ass up close, but they emote like *crazy* during cutscenes (and have a sense of personal 'flair' that avoid the uncanny valley for it).  I think that'll be the next 'point' it gets judged on since the characters themselves are under all sort of commentary.


I went off topic a bit, but given there's so little information about the game, most of it about the graphics, I thought I'd weigh in with a detailed post.

From what I follow:

Agent D: "I like character customization."
Yggdrasil: "I don't think character creation is viable in every JRPG"
MickeyMac: "I think he meant more customization than outright creation"
Agent D: "That's right"
Yggdrasil: "How dare you tell him he's right! But my last point still stands anyway."
MickeyMac: "Well your post that addresses my point clearly shows you didn't get my point. [long-form argument]"
Yggdrasil: "[appropriate gif responding to address snide response] But you make some good points, but I still disagree"
Agent D: [Strangest way of saying "I agree" in the universe]
Yggdrasil: "You would agree with him, wouldn't you?"

Is anyone else seeing how odd this conversation has gone? \

I just made a stupid mid-laugh face reading that whole thing
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 06:14:45 PM by Dice »
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Dincrest

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #157 on: April 21, 2015, 06:12:28 PM »
I said "we" as in a collective "we" not singling anyone out.  Because in looking at the FF15 thread, anyone knocking the character designs are doing them for what, to me, seem like the opposite reasons many folks here are knocking SO5's character designs.  I know it's not necessarily an apples to apples thing, just thought it was an interesting observation.  

I also kinda wonder if it's one of those cases where things look better in motion than in stills. 
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Dice

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #158 on: April 21, 2015, 06:21:03 PM »
I said "we" as in a collective "we" not singling anyone out.  Because in looking at the FF15 thread, anyone knocking the character designs are doing them for what, to me, seem like the opposite reasons many folks here are knocking SO5's character designs.  I know it's not necessarily an apples to apples thing, just thought it was an interesting observation. 

I also kinda wonder if it's one of those cases where things look better in motion than in stills. 


That's a good point too.  I'm actually pretty cool with the designs (obviously, sans witch, mainly all but her aren't really that "out there" as far as anime designs go).

But as for your second point (and you'll have to excuse the shite FPS here):

The battle part ought'a be fine. :D
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Klutz64

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #159 on: April 21, 2015, 06:43:47 PM »
Dice: I think you're confusing realism with fidelity. In SO4, I would absolutely agree with you that they were trying too hard to combine realism and anime (Reimi being the best example of that), but the SO5 characters seem to be dialing back on the realism factor, and just going for high fidelity 3D anime characters, which is where the disconnect is coming from for people that find it off-putting.

Me, I just see it as a sort of CG variation of claymation (poor example, but the best I can come up with) and it looks fine to me. But maybe that's because the 3D anime style makes it hard to replicate some of the more annoying problems I have with 2D anime like those DAMN LOLIS AND THEIR DAMN FANGS! XD

Mickeymac92

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #160 on: April 21, 2015, 06:51:12 PM »
Indeed, I'm sure it'll look much better in motion (as the article Dice linked pointed out, the uncanny valley isn't as bad with games because we don't have to focus on the characters as much, and we view them with a different mind set), and I'm pretty sure it'll be a fun game to boot - not sure if I was explicit, but a lot of Star Ocean 3 was "so close yet so far" from nailing a lot of aspects. So long as they make some decent tweaks, I'll enjoy it. I mean, I certainly enjoyed Star Ocean: The Last Hope for its tweaks, so there's definitely hope.

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Annubis

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #161 on: April 21, 2015, 06:55:32 PM »


Dresses up the girls (and Yuri); completely ignores Karol.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 06:57:37 PM by Annubis »

Klutz64

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #162 on: April 21, 2015, 06:57:42 PM »
Er... Karol is clearly wearing his Tales of Symphonia costume...

Annubis

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #163 on: April 21, 2015, 06:59:18 PM »
Er... Karol is clearly wearing his Tales of Symphonia costume...

Oh, you're right...
I somehow remembered him wearing red.

I need to replay Vesperia.
PS4 English version soon right?

Dice

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Re: Star Ocean 5
« Reply #164 on: April 21, 2015, 07:08:26 PM »
Er... Karol is clearly wearing his Tales of Symphonia costume...

Oh, you're right...
I somehow remembered him wearing red.

I need to replay Vesperia.
PS4 English version soon right?

Three years more if they're going for an anniversary milestone that isn't 5th or 15th. =/
 
Curious if we'll see any fun announcements for the upcoming Tales Fest.
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