Author Topic: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread

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Aeolus

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2015, 09:32:20 PM »
FFXII in 5 easy steps:
1) get quickening as fast as possible (almost at the expense of everything else)
2) Do hunts LOTS OF HUNTS (possibly ALL the hunts if you can stomach the never ending Yiazmat fight) as soon as they become available you're fairly certain you're prepared for it. 
3) pick a core group and stick with them as early in the game as possible (even Penelo is useful once she's gloriously over leveled). 
4) Do NOT ignore the gambit system.  People who do this are insane and irritate me almost as much as all the people who complain about FFXIII's paradigm shift system yet never bothered to use it correctly (and instead just tried to enter in commands manually and wound up dying 100's of time because they were too slow)
5) I still have no idea how I ended up dumping 96 hours into a game with so little plot/an almost pointless antagonist/the literal worst main character in major RPG history.


edit: I mostly ignored espers until I found out about how much they directly connect to the story in FF Tactics  .I'm pretty sure their existence in XII is proof that, even though the technology is far more advanced, that game took place many years before Tactics (WHEN DO WE GET TO FIND OUT ABOUT WHAT CAUSED THE CATACLYSM??).  So then I had to go back through and get most of them right before the final dungeon.


Well if you count the Lunar series as a whole as a major RPG series, then no, Vaan is by far and away not the worst JRPG protagonist in a major RPG.

Then again, even if we ignore Lunar Dragon Song, we still have some of the Grandia games (namely 3, though 1's Justin is pretty boring/lame), Wild ARMs 5, Xenosaga 3 (goddammit Shion), White Knight Chronicles (though this is debatable as these games did not turn out to be a major RPG series; thankfully), Star Ocean 4 (the name Edge Maverick was the only good thing about that character) and possibly Star Ocean 3 (Fayt doesn't really win any awards for exceeding competence, even when armed with bullshit plot lasers out of fucking nowhere) among others (depending on what you define 'major RPG series' as) who rank (and stank) worse than Vaan could've hoped to.

After all, while one can argue that Vaan shouldn't have been made in the first place, outside of some occasional derpery, he really didn't do all that much to hijack the plot or hog the spotlight, at the very least (then again, he didn't exactly drive the plot past the start either, almost like the devs wrote him as a goddamn Stealth Protagonist who forgot that he's already the Main Character, and instead turned around and had him abandon the plot's driving wheel, which Ashe eventually stepped in and took over, because what would Star Wars do when Luke and Han weren't driving the plot).

At least Justin actually has a purpose the entire game (explore new parts of the world and then save it) and Yuki is basically Justin except with airplanes.  Both of those two are bottomless pits of good guy pluck and resolve.  Neither (pretty decent) game could really go anywhere without them.  If FFXII killed off Vaan after the first 10 hours and just made Balthier the new protagonist it wouldn't have made much of a difference.  He is the 'worst' protagonist because, in a game that lacks many compelling characters, he is about the 4th or 5th most important.

Being nearly irrelevant in YOUR OWN GAME trumps being stupid or annoying in a game you are still central to the plot of.

edit: now that I think about it, killing off a protagonist and then replacing them with a new one part way through sounds like a great idea.  If placed in the right game, and if done correctly (and kept sufficiently under wraps ) that could turn into a really compelling narrative.

I've always felt that a lot of Justin's and Yuki's accomplishments just kinda fell into their respective laps. Like sure, they went on an adventure, much like a 5 year old goes on an adventure across their neighborhood.

Well anyways, by that criteria, that knocks out Grandia, Xenosaga and Star Ocean (and as loathed as I am to admit it, but also Lunar: Dragon Song; seriously, the only people more incompetent than your MC is the rest of your goddamn party; though they themselves were still more competent the actual makers of the piece of shit that is Lunar: Dragon Song), but you still haven't accounted for White Knight Chronicles (or how Leonard was such an incompetent dipshit that he got benched for the majority of the sequel; given how actively detrimental he was in the first game and how stock cliche driven the duology was, the guy was could've been replaced by the player's Avatar and nothing of value would've been lost the games would've been the better for it). Vaan is still better than that guy.
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Ranadiel

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2015, 07:06:58 AM »
*checks thread, sees FF12 hate, is overjoyed* All I can really add at this point is that as far as I am concerned, it is the worst FF game. Damn single player MMO.

Oh and the ultimate final boss was ridiculous, stupid thing took over an hour to kill even dealing max damage with every attack....okay I think I recall he actually cut the damage to 1/3 or something, so I guess technically it wasn't max damage with every attack.

Blace

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2015, 10:42:51 AM »
Just coming in here to say I love FFXII to quell all the hate and find it laughable to think it is the worst FF game. FF2 cannot be dethroned. Now I'm done haha.

Rucks

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2015, 11:01:20 AM »
I never played White Knight Chronicles (and probably never will), so I'll have to concede that one to you, Aeolus.

And even with all of its glaring flaws, FFXII still makes it into my top 5 main line Final Fantasy titles.  I could even make a case for it being in my top 3 (behind VI and IX, of course) on account of it holding up much better than VII when replayed years later.


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Klutz64

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2015, 11:03:46 AM »
Ultimately, I enjoyed my time with FF12, I just could never be bothered to go back to it after doing all but the last two hunts and getting all the summons.

Hathen

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2015, 11:37:22 AM »
I enjoyed 12 as well. Better to be ambitious and flawed than to be banal, I say.

Also I'm probably one of like 4 people on this board who played XI for the better part of a decade so that probably influences that too. Didn't mind the combat at all.

Dice

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2015, 12:59:15 PM »
SAVE THE DATE EVERYONE... or tune in or something!



Curious if new stuff or FF15 and KH3 mainly.  Hopefully this year's E3 has a lot of new stuff to announce, I'd like to think we're over the "new console" hurdle and we get into some seriously cool shtuff.
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timmyFd

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2015, 01:12:52 PM »


FFXII was loaded with terrible design decisions when it came to loot/equipment. You had things like:

- The Zodiac Spear, which you could find in a chest late in the game, 'IF' you didn't open very specific and very unmarked chests throughout the game (you might as well have not bothered to open any of them since most were filled with crap anyways).


Haha speak for yourself, I got it wayyyyy early on thanks to accidentally reading a guide.

Aeolus

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2015, 01:19:11 PM »
I enjoyed 12 as well. Better to be ambitious and flawed than to be banal, I say.

Also I'm probably one of like 4 people on this board who played XI for the better part of a decade so that probably influences that too. Didn't mind the combat at all.

Hey now, just because I hate certain parts of FFXII doesn't mean that I hate the whole thing. I still think the Gambit System should be used in more RPGs, the exploration was pretty cool at points (even if ultimately for the sake of Espers and Marks), the plot itself was pretty ambitious (if not necessarily concerning your party for any great length) and as far as stealth protagonists go, Ashe is one of the least obnoxious.


I never played White Knight Chronicles (and probably never will), so I'll have to concede that one to you, Aeolus.

And even with all of its glaring flaws, FFXII still makes it into my top 5 main line Final Fantasy titles.  I could even make a case for it being in my top 3 (behind VI and IX, of course) on account of it holding up much better than VII when replayed years later.

In all honesty, I probably should've picked a better example like FFVI. That game, while ostentatiously granting Terra the role of MC (for the ending credits and everything thereafter), didn't really grant it to her alone but also Celes and Locke, both of whom took control of the plot at certain points. Granted, Terra was more a demonstration on what would happen if the mysterious waif female lead was actually the MC for once instead of just another damsel in distress, but she still got distressed on more than one occasion and had to leave the party for a goodly chunk of the first half and was wholly optional for the second. Vaan at least, never had to leave the party (no matter how much we'd rather have Fran or Ashe as the party leader in cities and villages).

Though on that note, Cloud also left the party for a brief stretch, leaving Cid (and Tifa I guess) to pilot the party for a while, but that's closer to a brief reprieve compared to Terra's absence, especially since getting him back in your party was plot mandatory (compared to Terra's "I must go now for the ending sequence needs me.").
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timmyFd

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2015, 02:37:03 PM »
Vaan at least, never had to leave the party (no matter how much we'd rather have Fran or Ashe as the party leader in cities and villages).


Given that we all know FF12 was actually Star Wars, I think it's undeniable that Vaan and Penelo were playing the roles of R2D2 and C3PO

ZeronHitaro

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2015, 07:25:04 PM »
*checks thread, sees FF12 hate, is overjoyed* All I can really add at this point is that as far as I am concerned, it is the worst FF game. Damn single player MMO.


Being in the middle of a recent playthrough I'd actually argue FF6 - US SNES Version is a better contender. Typos everywhere, horrid localization (which translates to terribly laughable character moments), rancid monster design (starting from about the Esper Cave onwards every enemy has some sort of 'gimmick' that makes them far harder than they need to be to kill), the FLOATING ISLAND ZONE HOLY HELL, Esper Magic grinding is worse than even FF8's drawing, I don't even want to imagine leveling up in this game without 'Fast Forward' mode (spent 3+ real time hours with mostly fast forward down getting 5 party members into the 70's; and because of Kefka's tower I need at least 12)...ect, ect.

FF12 put me to sleep. FF6 is stealing my kidneys after drugging me.

Honestly I believe anyone who speaks highly of 'this' version hasn't played it since they were a kid. >.<

As a side note, funnily enough Terra is just as bad as Vaan in the 'contributes nothing to the main plot' yet no one ever mentions this. The Returners would be doing their thing without her and eventually Locke would've run into Celes, giving movement to the rest of the plot. Literally the only thing Terra contributes that any other party member wouldn't have done is open the Esper Door. But according to the plot they were 'just sitting there waiting' anyway. So as soon as something opened the door the empire razing flame fest was going to happen regardless. Delete Terra, give Celes most of her role; plot goes unchanged.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 07:32:26 PM by ZeronHitaro »

Andrew

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2015, 07:49:50 PM »
Imma let you finish, but Warrior of Light is the most story irrelevant FF character ever.



Dice

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2015, 08:15:40 PM »
Imma let you finish, but Warrior of Light is the most story irrelevant FF character ever.

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Andrew

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2015, 08:17:05 PM »
Lol! That is amazing.



ZeronHitaro

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Re: The Final General Fantasy Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2015, 08:22:08 PM »
Admittedly I'm guilty of not playing the original two. I had the FF Origins disk in High School but really just couldn't get into either. Maybe I should at least give the first one a go someday. I hear 2's just pretty much abusing the stat system for an hour then making cake of the rest of the experience.