Author Topic: Nier 2 for PS4

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Ramza

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #135 on: March 16, 2017, 11:53:42 PM »
Also, well come to Yoko Taro games. I hope you enjoy the weirdness. Theres always a lot of weirdness in his games.
I am loving the weird.  One of the best things a writer / artist / director can do is take me somewhere I wouldn't have gone on my own.

Same. And this is exactly the case. Give me 8000 years, I couldn't have written something as special as this lore, which goes from Drakengard 1 (Ending E) thru NieR and NieR Automata.

Previously, if you asked me my favorite game or franchise based on story alone, I'd have coin-flipped on Zero Escape and Persona 3/4.

Now it is plainly NieR, because of Automata. I simply think it's *that* good.

Arvis

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #136 on: March 17, 2017, 09:40:39 AM »
Good lord, @Ramza

What if a hypothetical person has never played Drakengard 1 or NieR and doesn't care about either one but REALLY REALLY wants Automata?
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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #137 on: March 17, 2017, 10:24:20 AM »
I've never played a Drakengard game. I only played the first NieR last year. They're not essential at all. Playing NieR would make you appreciate the cameos, but if you want to play both, I'd imagine that would flesh out the lore.

I think I prefer the characters in the first NieR, but this game is pretty fantastic in every other aspect. I planning to have a review up in the next week or so, so check that out.

Towns Car Marty

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #138 on: March 17, 2017, 04:54:55 PM »
Read the Drakengard wiki but skip the game. Unless you're that dedicated. Nier's essential though
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Ramza

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #139 on: March 17, 2017, 06:53:01 PM »
I agree that NieR is essential, or "NieRly-essential" (LOL).

Playing NieR Automata, IMO, is akin to a devout Christian reading the New Testament. NieR (1) is the Old Testament. When Jesus or Paul talk about Abraham, David, Jonah, and so many others, you may completely miss the value in those statements. And, sometimes? Those statements REALLY matter.

As for Drakengard ... you really don't need 3 (yet... though I suspect someday we will thanks to a certain character named "Accord"). Drakengard 1 gives you the root conflict that creates ... everything. My recommendation for Drakengard 1 would be to get on YouTube and find some videos that demonstrated the specific developments within Drakengard 1 that lead to NieR (and no, it isn't *just* "Ending E" ... there's more you ought to know about the entities that come through space-time to land in Tokyo, so you need more lore behind that).

And Drakengard 2 wasn't made by Yoko Taro and follows a timeline separate from the one that leads to NieR. It's not worth your time. Though ... I still kinda like evil giant baby angels. And there were lots of those in D2.

The "cameos" in NieR Automata are, in some ways, less relevant than those characters who do not make direct appearances. There is so much to appreciate, so much to speculate upon, by the time you finish Automata. SUPER SPOILER TIME!!

Spoiler: show

- There's Replicant DNA on the moon, you say? I wonder WHOSE it might be?!?!? It could be Kainé. It is almost impossible that it's NieR himself, as he was erased from the world in every way possible. But it could ALSO be Yonah!! And wouldn't "The Girl In Red," the hive-mind machine entity designed to look like her be tickled pink by this! Furthermore, the machines possess capabilities unknown to the androids. They were built by an alien race (which they, apparently, subdued to the point of extinction). They've also had thousands of years to develop, and to study the remnants of humanity. What if they can use that DNA to build a Replicant? And what if, somehow, they could find a soul, a Gestalt, to merge in? White chlorination / "The Scrawl" are not going to be found on the moon. The machines that shot out of the tower, which may or may not include the consciousness of 9S, may very well find a way to resurrect humanity after an 8000 year extinction. Kind of like Jurassic Park, but for humans instead of dinosaurs.

- Consider the cultural implications of the machines wanting to imitate, and take the role, of humanity. We see machines wearing the masks of the desert people from NieR -- and can even find Old World lore of the many ridiculous rules they lived by. Then there's Pascal, and her love of philosophy. But she's not the only one, is she? The *boss* creatures name themselves after famous philosophers, including Marx, Hegel, and Engels. Interestingly, you don't *know* that in Ending A path, because 2B can only read it in SERAPHIC. 9S can see their decoded names, however. What does it mean that some machine units are named after famous humans? What does it mean that Seraphic seems to be the language of coding and encryption in the world of NieR: Automata, when it is *originally* the text that added POWER to Words in the first NieR? It is TGCA (DNA) in Seraphic that we see when the Scrawl is crawling all over people in NieR. The Seraphic lettering were what we saw all over NieR, especially with magic. But in Automata, 9S is shooting out Seraphic lettering at enemies (while holding triangle) as he attempts to hack in. Is that an artifact of some sort? Or is there an innate power to this lettering, this script?

- As much as I LOVE Devola and Popola, they are not cameos, are they? The pair in NieR really and truly died. And, according to their account, this pair of Devola and Popola may be the last left of hundreds of pairs. The others were ordered to be eliminated because of their emotional outburst that many androids believe resulted in the end of Project Gestalt (and thus the end of humanity). In truth, if you've played NieR, you know that's not the case. But this exact experience is a big piece of *why* YoRHa androids are ordered not to display emotion. And it's why Dev/Pop were made all-but-extinct, with apparently the final pair reaching the resistance camp where you're stationed (according to the lore, it's in or near Nagoya). Nonetheless, Dev/Pop in this game feel a sort of shared burden with all their models for what happened, and they seek redemption. And in ch. 17-1, they get it, in one of the absolute best parts of the entire game. BUT, if you didn't see what Dev/Pop did in NieR, everything from the camera angles and character stances to the music won't resonate with you. The reference isn't just "nice." It's powerful. Powerful like when Jesus says "the only thing I'll give you is the sign of Jonah."

- The biggest value of NieR, to me, is that NieR is GONE. He is 1000% erased from existence. And yet, Taro et al saw fit to name this game "NieR: Automata." Why? So the hardcore fanbase could talk it up? Was it just a shitty PR stunt about a game loosely connected to its predecessor? Hardly. Automata is a game about choice. "NieR" was about the power of words. "NieR: Automata" is about the power of choice, and who does/doesn't have self-determination, and what it means when you believe this or that entity does/doesn't have it. But language is one of the key ways we get across from one entity to another that, indeed, we're one of those creatures that have self-ownership. All of that traces back to a crazy guy who sacrificed everything, and whose Replicant clones would also sacrifice everything, for his daughter. And what does it mean that he's now gone? Gone from the records, gone from memory, gone from history? A hell of a lot, actually. We also have no idea who the hell those aliens are. They're a mystery. But unlike the aliens, we are more-than-haunted by the lasting effects of that one man, NieR. He may have been the undoing of humanity, but on the other hand, he extended humanity's life by 1500+ years. The androids wouldn't be here, and the aliens would have found a barren planet. EVERYONE's existence in Automata is predicated on the actions of the man named NieR. NieR, of course, is also listed over and over in the Project Gestalt documents as "The Original." We can't know his name, but we know an entity named "The Original" brought about these events. We can't 'put words' to it, though. Words have power, you know.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 06:56:01 PM by Ramza »

Alisha

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #140 on: March 18, 2017, 08:41:08 PM »
actually the timeline goes drakengard 3 -> drakengard 1 -> Nier -> Nier Automata. however it's the novelization of drakengard 3 that links to 1.
*tldr* One's clone kills zero after she killed her sisters and goes on to form the cult of the watchers.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 08:56:34 PM by Alisha »

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Ramza

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #141 on: March 18, 2017, 11:58:13 PM »
actually the timeline goes drakengard 3 -> drakengard 1 -> Nier -> Nier Automata.

Did I or someone else suggest otherwise for the timeline?

(and again, note my spoiler tag. An android named "Accord" could someday be an important tie across the timeline!)

Kevadu

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #142 on: March 19, 2017, 12:05:07 AM »
Once I tried reading this site to try and understand how these games are all related...but it just made my head hurt and I gave up.

Still a fun game though.

Ramza

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #143 on: March 19, 2017, 12:43:21 AM »
Once I tried reading this site to try and understand how these games are all related...but it just made my head hurt and I gave up.

Still a fun game though.

That is helpful! Fun detail...

Spoiler: show

A2's first mission, the Pearl Harbor mission where she loses all her co-units, and then deserts, finds out the truth, and lives on to eventually meet 2B and 9S -- that's the entirety of the "YoRHa" stage play! Which I would love to see live...

bigdeath

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #144 on: March 19, 2017, 04:20:23 PM »
Hint hint,

Spoiler: show
A2 is the #2 from the play.
  Which is what some fans were speculating before the game came out.

Of course, you don't need to know anything at all about the previous games to fully enjoy the story in Automata.

Mickeymac92

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #145 on: March 19, 2017, 09:42:15 PM »
Yeah, I haven't been paying much attention to the lore in Nier, and I probably never will, because no game is worth this much effort to keep up with, in my lazy opinion. It was, however, a fun game with a cool protagonist whose personal plight had me invested enough to overlook the bonkers story it had to be shoved into.

Really, I feel like the only reason I haven't finished it is because its rabid fanbase keeps telling me that I gotta beat it several times in order to enjoy it...like as if "being a fun game" isn't good enough or something...whatever. I've learned to ignore junk like that, although I'll admit, it is that line of thinking that reminds me why I hate books so much.

And oh, hey! In Nier you get a smart-aleck-y book that gets told what-for multiple times! Maybe I'll finish up Nier (whatever the first ending I get, at any rate) next. I could use a break from Ratchet & Clank/Overwatch, and I'm guessing the first time through shouldn't take over 40 hours, yes?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 09:48:24 PM by Mickeymac92 »

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Andrew

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #146 on: March 19, 2017, 09:47:35 PM »
Maybe I'll finish up Nier (whatever the first ending I get, at any rate) next.

You'll get Ending A. You get them in order, so if you did decide to play it again at some point (and there are differences the second time through), you'd get ending B, etc.



Mickeymac92

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #147 on: March 19, 2017, 10:03:03 PM »
Cool. I look forward to Ending A, provided it has a good final boss.

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Ramza

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #148 on: March 19, 2017, 10:44:27 PM »
Cool. I look forward to Ending A, provided it has a good final boss.

Get to B.

When you start B you do *not* start from the beginning. You start a bit past the halfway mark. And you ... well, the story changes the entire time. You do all the same stuff, but now you can hear and understand things you didn't hear and understand before. You get Kainé's perspective, essentially.

So just play through to B. It's so totally worth it.

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Re: Nier 2 for PS4
« Reply #149 on: March 19, 2017, 11:00:33 PM »
Cool. I look forward to Ending A, provided it has a good final boss.

Get to B.

When you start B you do *not* start from the beginning. You start a bit past the halfway mark. And you ... well, the story changes the entire time. You do all the same stuff, but now you can hear and understand things you didn't hear and understand before. You get Kainé's perspective, essentially.

So just play through to B. It's so totally worth it.

I'd suggest playing all the way to ending D since all you need is to collect all the weapons (you don't have to upgrade any of them beyond what you need to get through the game with) while on the B ending route and after the final battle you'll be offered a choice between two options (one leads to ending C and the other to D). You don't need to replay anything before the point of no return.

Of course, if you do go all the way for Ending D, I'd highly recommend getting endings B & C first, for reasons that are too spoilers to discuss.
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