Author Topic: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita

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MonCapitan2002

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2016, 03:38:43 AM »

oh lord... those screens.  



WA2 has a hack translation job, but that'd be putting down a lot of good efforts by a lot of good groups then xD
That gif is awesome.

This game looks like something I would be interested in.

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2016, 04:51:36 AM »
Here's the thing.  I feel like Unlimited SaGa could have been good with a better manual or tutorials or any sort of explanatory exposition.  It's like trying to play a complicated board game without knowing the rules and there is no expert player there to kinda help walk you through the rules.  Unlimited SaGa is not a "pick-up-and-play" type of game. 

No matter what way you slice it, having to hit a slot machine to activate skills in battle is baloney.

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2016, 10:43:35 AM »
Here's the thing.  I feel like Unlimited SaGa could have been good with a better manual or tutorials or any sort of explanatory exposition.  It's like trying to play a complicated board game without knowing the rules and there is no expert player there to kinda help walk you through the rules.  Unlimited SaGa is not a "pick-up-and-play" type of game. 

No matter what way you slice it, having to hit a slot machine to activate skills in battle is baloney.

Lunar: Dragon Song's "running HP drain" can also be filed under "what the fuck were they thinking" pile of gaming mistakes.
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Der Jermeister

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2016, 05:13:50 PM »
Here's the thing.  I feel like Unlimited SaGa could have been good with a better manual or tutorials or any sort of explanatory exposition.  It's like trying to play a complicated board game without knowing the rules and there is no expert player there to kinda help walk you through the rules.  Unlimited SaGa is not a "pick-up-and-play" type of game. 
Yeah, having to use a guide to play a game = not an indicator of good design.

Dincrest

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2016, 06:30:47 PM »
Marty- Fair point.  At least with the Judgment Ring in Shadow Hearts, there were skills and such to manipulate it to spin in your favor.  

Jermeister- I respectfully disagree.  Some of the most highly regarded old-school PC RPGs had extensive gameplay manuals.  Would you call IKEA furniture poorly designed because it requires an instruction sheet to assemble?  I wouldn't.  IKEA stuff is great.  Plus, cars in Europe and Japan often have extensive manuals for their gadgetry and stuff.  Are those poorly designed?  No.  I think they're forefronts of new technology.  The only reason it would be seen as "poor design" in the US is that the culture here wants everything "pick up and do" because there's that stupid mentality in America that "real men don't read directions."  To hell with that.  Real STUPID men don't read directions.  

I'm also in favor of in-game tutorials, especially for games that experiment with new gameplay ideas.  Sometimes it's easier to learn in a guided hands-on way than just reading it or full immersion.  Guided hands-on is how I learn best. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 06:53:58 PM by Dincrest »
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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2016, 06:43:40 PM »
Lunar: Dragon Song can also be filed under "what the fuck were they thinking" pile of gaming mistakes.

Fixed that for you (because there was far more wrong with that game than "Running HP Drain", like making literally everybody save the MC totally useless garbage).
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Mickeymac92

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2016, 07:51:56 PM »
Would you call IKEA furniture poorly designed because it requires an instruction sheet to assemble?

If there's a significant chance that you'll screw it up and waste all of their time and money? Yes.

But I don't think that's the point DJ was trying to make - having to use an outside source in order to progress means that they didn't design it with user-friendliness in mind. You could design the best game ever, but it will never amount to anything if no one can play it. A game is supposed to be like a self-contained world, for the most part, or perhaps a fancy puzzle-box. At the very least, all the pieces have to be there, and readily available in one form or another. In a game like Unlimited SaGa, it's like buying an IKEA chair with no manual and no screws/nuts etc., completely unassembled, and now you have to call up customer service so they can walk you through the assembly.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 07:56:09 PM by Mickeymac92 »

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Dincrest

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2016, 08:04:39 PM »
In that case, I read the word "guide" as instruction guide (like a manual) rather than guide like a tour guide.  But I see in-game tutorials as being like a hand-holding guide for game mechanics, especially if those tutorials are interactive.  Grandia II did that very well.  And I definitely think Unlimited SaGa would have benefited from some hand-holding in-game tutorials, which is my analogy to the expert player guiding a n00b through the rules of a boardgame.

I remember back in the day when games used to have secrets so obscure that they were there merely to sell Prima or Brady strategy guides.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 08:25:50 PM by Dincrest »
"I think I'm losing it.  I'm pulling out my hair trying to figure out what couch defines me as a person.  This is freaking madness.  This is hopeless.  This... my perfect little habitat here, and I still don't even know who I am."  - from Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom by Burnt By The Sun

Der Jermeister

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2016, 10:31:01 PM »
I just don't like things such as games giving crappy direction on how to advance or there being a "right" way to play a game.

Mickeymac92

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2016, 02:00:25 PM »
I just don't like things such as games giving crappy direction on how to advance or there being a "right" way to play a game.

...there's always a third option. :P Anyways, that's a fair point, too. I hate playing games using a guide, yet I rarely replay RPGs because of their absurd length (I made the mistake of trying an indie RPG while it's still in development, and now even though there's more content I want to try, I never get to that point because an update rendered my 20+ hour save useless, and I don't want to go through all of that again just to finish chapter 2...).

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Dincrest

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2016, 02:26:08 PM »
My immediate thought regarding "crappy direction on how to advance" and "one true way" was the infamous "cat moustache" puzzle in Gabriel Knight 3.  It was, in itself, a clever puzzle but it was 100% arbitrary and completely out of context, especially since the dude you were trying to disguise yourself at had no moustache.  

ASIDE:  Dammit, why is the spell-checker red-lining me on moustache?  That is a valid spelling, dammit!
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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2016, 04:32:52 PM »
In those instances, I'd prefer that things such as puzzles and minigames, especially if more difficult than the main game itself, should be skippable after a few tries. The puzzles where Cress and Arche have to hit switches simultaneously comes to mind in that if you fail enough times, your other characters just do it for you.

Mickeymac92

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Re: Saga Scarlet Grace announced for PSVita
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2016, 10:39:10 PM »
In those instances, I'd prefer that things such as puzzles and minigames, especially if more difficult than the main game itself, should be skippable after a few tries. The puzzles where Cress and Arche have to hit switches simultaneously comes to mind in that if you fail enough times, your other characters just do it for you.

I personally would hate that immensely, because that's patronizing to the N-th degree, and shows zero respect for the game's audience, nor any faith in their abilities. If they're going to go through all that effort to make a complex challenge, then I, the player, should only be rewarded upon the completion of that challenge, provided the challenge is fair and the reward is reasonable.

Granted, I know there have been times where I've disliked a challenging minigame, and even drop a game I was enjoying because of it, but that's usually because the minigame is bad, and the context for requiring it to progress is blatantly arbitrary (I'm encountering a lot of those in PSOne RPGs so far). I still don't think I should be allowed to skip it, because I always have option to simply change my opinion of it - either I could go back and muscle through it, and except it as a black splotch on an otherwise good game, or I could simply decide the game is no longer worth my time, and play something else instead.

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