Author Topic: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread

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Aeolus

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2015, 05:03:11 AM »
Really enjoyed it. I don't have any real complaints, but I do have a question...


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It's the latter, hence my complaints about her being a major-time Mary Sue.
They're setting her up to be some sort of Force-Savant (like no one ever was~).
I also suspect it was the writer's lazy card for trying to preserve their 'tough female protag' concept.
Rey in trouble? Can't let any males help her? Suddenly, new Force Power Get~! Problem solved.

XP

Yeah. I can't argue with that (except for the use of the term Mary Sue; although in this case, it IS somewhat closer to its original meaning than the usual misuse of the term), especially with Abram's track record of pulling these kinds of handwaves to justify utter nonsense (like Red Matter or Khan's Regenerating Blood from the New Trek duology).

An analogy would be if some random farmer gave the protagonist the One Ring and told them it controls them all and can make you invisible, so after spending most of the movie playing around with it to get out of various scrapes, the main character is confronted by a Balrog and right before getting horribly murdered, slips on the ring and commands it to not only not kill him but also to open the way forward or something, and somebody asks "How did you do that?" and then Gandalf shows up and says "As I told you earlier, it's the one ring that Controls Them All." and then the party goes "Ohhh..." and you're expected to treat that as perfectly plausible.

Well that, and in this particular case, I feel that Abrams was kinda drawing too much from what remains of the Expanded Universe, which was pretty fan ficy on a good day. So I'd probably wager that Reigh's mom will turn out to be Mara Jade, who in this case, was a Super Force Adept from a previous age or something (not like they didn't already use this to some extent in the prequel trilogy with Annie; though that's not much justification given how much of the prequel trilogy's writing was utter crap).


I just saw this with my mom, in 3D, in a theater with awesome recliner seats.  My mom's the one who got me into Star Wars in the first place when I was a little kid.  We both loved it and definitely want to see it again. 

What I thought was cool was the sheer number of cool/badass women, often in positions of power. 
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Leia's still leader of the resistance, Captain Phasma is the leader of the stormtroopers, Rey obviously, and that Asian female pilot on Poe Dameron's strike team...
I also liked some of the new additions to the soundtrack.  Like the music that plays when we first meet Rey scavenging for parts and then sliding down the dune- I did not recognize that piece of music from other Star Wars films, but it was good. 

The only thing I had an issue with was that some of the characters' names were said too quickly/incoherently and there wasn't enough exposition for some of them.  Like
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the old guy played by Max Von Sydow who gives Poe the map.  Who was he, and how did a nobody like him come into possession of the map? 
The movie set itself up very well for sequels, my mom and I have a million questions, and we both want to see it again. 

I really hope that Phasma turns up in Episode 8 without the Stormtrooper getup and huge ass crazy revenge streak going on where she ends up chasing the main characters around at a couple of points with the final confrontation consisting of Finn demanding to know who this crazy woman is and why she's so hell bent on trying to kill them and she replies "I'm your old boss! The one you shoved into the trash compactor!!!" and then she falls into a Sarlac Pit.

As for who the old guy was at the start of the movie, my best guess was that he was the actor who played the base commander to the rebel base in either A New Hope or The Empire Strikes Back. And again, this is just a wild guess because I haven't a clue either (it was either one of those two guys or somebody from the prequels, and I haven't a clue as to whom that could even possibly be).
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2015, 07:25:02 AM »
Really enjoyed it. I don't have any real complaints, but I do have a question...

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How did Rey know how to do the mind control of that Stormtrooper while she was locked up? I mean, did I miss a moment where someone told her that was possible? Or does she just magically know it's possible because the Force?

My take on it is that
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when Kylo Ren probed her mind, her fight instinct kicked in and she was doing mental judo, using a larger opponent's leverage against him.  Once she figured she could do that (which was not that difficult considering Kylo Ren's still a poseur getting his sea legs), she probably thought, "Holy shit!  Maybe I can do those jedi mind tricks like I've heard in stories when I was a kid.  I'll try it on that stormtrooper over there."  It's like, if we suddenly realized we had powers like our favorite comic book character or mythological hero, wouldn't you want to try and do stuff from the stories you read/heard?
The irresponsible part of that scene, to me, is that
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for such a valuable prisoner, whose mind contains the map piece they want, and who's clearly force sensitive to the point where she could mind-spar with "fearless leader," why did they only have ONE stormtrooper guarding her?  Why wasn't the door closed with two guard troopers on the other side?  THAT was too conveniently irresponsible.
Rey reminds me a bit of Vin from the Mistborn trilogy.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 07:48:52 AM by Dincrest »
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ZeronHitaro

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2015, 08:16:46 AM »


The irresponsible part of that scene, to me, is that
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for such a valuable prisoner, whose mind contains the map piece they want, and who's clearly force sensitive to the point where she could mind-spar with "fearless leader," why did they only have ONE stormtrooper guarding her?  Why wasn't the door closed with two guard troopers on the other side?  THAT was too conveniently irresponsible.

Because she's a girl.

And no this isn't some major commentary thing. There's actually, I think, a justifiable (albeit flimsy) excuse for it.

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Earlier scenes established that Kylo-Ren likes to go all heavy-duty abusive torture when extracting information.
Yet for some reason as soon as Rey gets her turn it's all kid-gloves on. So why didn't Kylo go all hardcore, beat-her-up,
mind-smack her out the gate, full-security detail to get the information?

He's Han Solo's kid. Han's your traditional rogue through and through; including a weakness & underestimation for the other gender.

You can't really say if Han took a female Imperial Officer prisoner in the originals he wouldn't make the same mistakes
Kylo does here. Only unlike Han, Kylo doesn't have a Wookie to smack him upside the head and go "What are you doing, idiot?"
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 08:20:41 AM by ZeronHitaro »

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2015, 09:41:34 AM »
I think Dincrest has it.  If you couldn't tell, Rey is something of a Star Wars nerd.  She openly geeks out about anything related to the Rebels and Jedi, so she knows all the stories and everything a Force user should be capable of.
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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2015, 10:28:49 AM »
I think Dincrest has it.  If you couldn't tell, Rey is something of a Star Wars nerd.  She openly geeks out about anything related to the Rebels and Jedi, so she knows all the stories and everything a Force user should be capable of.

I feel like JoeCool was a location that appeared in the prequel trilogy or something to that effect, which would make it more or a Jedi Tourist Hotspot and less Moisture Farm that Tattooine dump was, but then, Tattooine was also a hotspot in the prequel trilogy which, by that logic, should've influenced Luke back when he was servicing droids for his Uncle (beyond being all up in the Rebellion v the Empire but having no clue that the Force was anything more than some dammed old fool's crusade and hocus pocus mubo jumbo (and given the weight of Han's explanation on the M. Falcon, I suspect that it was mostly the same for her as well)).

Frankly, the best explanation I could come up with is that, like Anakin in Episode 1, Reigh had developed an unconscious habit of using her Force abilities without even realizing that she had them, and only by seeing it in action in the hands of a pro someone who knows understands what he is doing does she figure out the basic controls.

Alternatively, Reigh could have a Dragon Ball's Son Goku thing going on where her adoptive grandfather taught her the basics before some mysterious Force crushed him in the middle of the night on a Full Moon (or two, or three, or frankly I have no fucking idea as to how many Moons there are around Joe Cool), and then is just Sayin enough to be able to do things like watch Master Ren-shi fire off his Kamehame Wave Jedi Mind Control at a burning mountain her which prompts her to do the same to the car a random Stormtrooper.
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2015, 12:54:32 PM »
Really enjoyed it. I don't have any real complaints, but I do have a question...

Code: [Select]
How did Rey know how to do the mind control of that Stormtrooper while she was locked up? I mean, did I miss a moment where someone told her that was possible? Or does she just magically know it's possible because the Force?

Code: [Select]
I'm guessing she sort of had it innately in her?  While it was happening in the forest she was pretty controlled by it but quickly realized she can resist it.

I'm guessing, if she's related to SKywalker fam-jam in any way, maybe she's also able to pick it up as quickly as Luke did too. :P



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Dincrest

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2015, 03:37:46 PM »
See, the theory with Rey that she's related to
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Skywalker is not one I can get behind.  It just feels too damn obvious.  To quote admiral Akbar "it's a trap!"  If anything, I could see Rey being on a branch of the Kenobi or Jinn (like Qui Gon Jinn from Phantom Menace) family tree, since either of them were masters of jedi mind tricks and that's where she seemed to snap into her savant abilities.
And I'm willing to think that she's like Vin in Mistborn who just unconsciously used her "luck" not realizing that she had the powers that she did and just needed a little shove to really awaken them and learn to use them effectively. 
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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2015, 03:48:59 PM »
I like the idea that:
Quote
Rey learned a lot of things by her little mind probe battle with Kylo. Relationship to skywalker seems obvious but I hope you guys are right and it'd be better for the story if she's not. Luke seemed too much like a loner anyway so having him deal with his new academy and the fallout from that in addition to having a family seems like a messy story. Especially since we didn't hear Leia mentioning any more family when talking about looking for her brother.


The movie has its flaws but the fact that a lot of the talk is about possibilities and not "holy shit damn that was stupid" is fun and promising.

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2015, 07:07:04 PM »
Saw The Force Awakens today, and I was surprised...but not in a wholly positive way. It wasn't a bad movie, but my mom said it best when she said it was like re-watching the original trilogy, and somewhat felt like a "best of the OT" compilation.

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2015, 07:15:41 PM »
I was assuming that

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relatedness or not, she was a former students of Luke's so she DID have force training, survived the thing, was in max von sydow's care, but was all PTSD cause watching all her frens get dead so she forgot most of her training until there was some /pressure/ to remember it.

So she's not actually doing all this force stuff without training. She'd HAD training. It just needed to come back to her????

wrt relatedness, I read there's some EU stuff that could be being used as the basis for her being luke skywalker's daughter, but uh, that's not obligatory
rey being related to Opie Juan would be neat too!

I mean the flashback thing's intentionally vague so who knows but that's just my interpretation of the situation. Go on and marinate on that for a minute.
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Dincrest

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2015, 10:12:30 PM »
You might be onto something Mesh.  I could get behind that storyline.  As I said earlier, the Max Von Sydow character is one that totally had my mom and I befuddled. 

Before I even saw the movie I was talking with my coworkers and we came to the conclusion that The Force Awakens will not be the cultural revolution that the original 1977 Star Wars was, but that it will be a darn good movie.  And sometimes, that's enough.  It's like I posited in the FFXV thread:
As a tangent, does every FF need to be a revolution or a genre-defining masterwork?  Is it okay if it's just a really good game?  My favorite FF is FF8, which was not at all revolutionary nor a genre-defining masterwork, but was a really good (if very flawed) game.  Heck, it's the FF I've played more times to completion than any other. 

If FF15 is not the revolutionary genre-defining masterwork it aspires to be but is instead just a really damn good game, will that make it a disappointment?  Is being just a really damn good game not good enough?  I don't know. Sometimes I play games that, in their efforts to be some kind of beyond the pale experience, lose sight of simply being good games. 

While I'm always looking for the next revolution, I'm always satisfied if a game is simply just a really good game, no more and no less.
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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2015, 10:28:28 PM »
I like the idea that:
Quote
Rey learned a lot of things by her little mind probe battle with Kylo. Relationship to skywalker seems obvious but I hope you guys are right and it'd be better for the story if she's not. Luke seemed too much like a loner anyway so having him deal with his new academy and the fallout from that in addition to having a family seems like a messy story. Especially since we didn't hear Leia mentioning any more family when talking about looking for her brother.


The movie has its flaws but the fact that a lot of the talk is about possibilities and not "holy shit damn that was stupid" is fun and promising.

Definitely this.

And yeah, the movie basically feels like a 2.0 redux of A New Hope, but I think it'll branch out better from here.  I can understand perhaps playing it safe in light of the 2000-era trilogy.

You might be onto something Mesh.  I could get behind that storyline.  As I said earlier, the Max Von Sydow character is one that totally had my mom and I befuddled. 

Before I even saw the movie I was talking with my coworkers and we came to the conclusion that The Force Awakens will not be the cultural revolution that the original 1977 Star Wars was, but that it will be a darn good movie.  And sometimes, that's enough.  It's like I posited in the FFXV thread:
As a tangent, does every FF need to be a revolution or a genre-defining masterwork?  Is it okay if it's just a really good game?  My favorite FF is FF8, which was not at all revolutionary nor a genre-defining masterwork, but was a really good (if very flawed) game.  Heck, it's the FF I've played more times to completion than any other. 

If FF15 is not the revolutionary genre-defining masterwork it aspires to be but is instead just a really damn good game, will that make it a disappointment?  Is being just a really damn good game not good enough?  I don't know. Sometimes I play games that, in their efforts to be some kind of beyond the pale experience, lose sight of simply being good games. 

While I'm always looking for the next revolution, I'm always satisfied if a game is simply just a really good game, no more and no less.

Since i don't really have any "omg best trilogy/movie/thing EVER" for it (I still love it and think the lore is great), I think it's why I can enjoy Force Awakens that much more; and I'm perfectly fine with being "just satisfied" than expecting the next BIG EPIC LIFE-CHANGING FILM EVENT.  But I definitely can't blame people when they want to feel that all over again.

Anyways, after Eps I-III, they only could move up.
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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2015, 04:25:44 AM »
See, the theory with Rey that she's related to
Code: [Select]
Skywalker is not one I can get behind.  It just feels too damn obvious.  To quote admiral Akbar "it's a trap!"  If anything, I could see Rey being on a branch of the Kenobi or Jinn (like Qui Gon Jinn from Phantom Menace) family tree, since either of them were masters of jedi mind tricks and that's where she seemed to snap into her savant abilities.
And I'm willing to think that she's like Vin in Mistborn who just unconsciously used her "luck" not realizing that she had the powers that she did and just needed a little shove to really awaken them and learn to use them effectively. 

My problem with her not being
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Skywalker's kid is that her next most likely option would be Ben's Sister, especially given both how much of a big thing that was in the former EU and Episode VII's reliance on said last remnants of the Old EU and playing up first trilogy tropes (like the main villain of the movie killing off the old mentor before the protagonist's eyes). I'd play into the Lightsaber thing as well since it would still be her Grandfather's Lightsaber, though not necessarily her Father's, but it would also be a massive asspull given how Han, Leia or Ben gave no comment on this.
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.

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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2015, 08:25:37 AM »
(as a tangential side note, the absolute worst part of the movie was the previews.  They were all awful.  Even X-Men: Age of Apocalypse failed to move me, and I liked The Wolverine and Days of Future Past.)
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Re: The NEW New Star Wars [s]Trilogy[/s] Thread
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2015, 10:32:38 AM »
(as a tangential side note, the absolute worst part of the movie was the previews.  They were all awful.  Even X-Men: Age of Apocalypse failed to move me, and I liked The Wolverine and Days of Future Past.)

Wait, you had X-Men:AoA!? All I got out of the previews was Independence Day 2: Electric Buggaloo and a bunch of YA dreck.
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.