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Author Topic: "knights do it two handed"  (Read 7980 times)
Alisha
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« on: January 08, 2007, 06:51:43 AM »

thats from FFVA and is easily one of the worst lines ive ever seen in an rpg. outside that hopefully unintentional humor im enjoying this game a lot so far. as soon as the job system was unlocked i became hooked but my monk keeps dying at bosses :(
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 12:40:33 PM »

So.....why did you start this topic?
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 01:09:13 PM »

Aren't there more pop culture or otherwise 'reality-literal' lines in the game too?  I thought I heard that somewhere.  That's kind of a turn off for me.

I loved it in the Lunar games, but those games didn't take themselves seriously in the first place.
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 07:02:39 PM »

FFV takes itself seriously?
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 08:27:34 PM »

Yeah, it'd suck if pop culture references ruined a rich and complex story like FFV's.










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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 09:54:01 PM »

Replaying through Final Fantasy Mystic Quest days ago, that game had way goofy dialogue so to me, this was not really much. Maybe I should replay FFV or play FFVA to see if I find the dialogue worse :p
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 09:58:57 PM »

"I'm a pirate" "I'm an old man." "I'm a princess." "I'm gay."

GO FORTH MY HEROES
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 11:43:36 PM »

I posted months ago that FFV Advance also had the "attack its weakpoint for massive damage" quote in it.

And I think Raze's spoiler-text about sums it up. FFV isn't a very deep or serious game for starters, and if they wanna have a more light-hearted translation on a handheld port, I'm all for it.

Ramza
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 12:03:14 AM »

Quote from: "Raze"
Yeah, it'd suck if pop culture references ruined a rich and complex story like FFV's.










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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 12:58:26 AM »

I'm not fond of pop culture references in general, though, just because they're mostly stupid and unfunny. The humor from that comes from confusing people that aren't in on it. If you're telling it to someone that is, without an audience, it's basically circle jerk.

Although along the same lines, I felt the comedic relief (Ultros, for instance!) in the more-serious FFVI was rather out of place. Solt and Peppor from CC, Nornstein Beckler from CT, Ozzy et all from CT... Aimless comedic relief bugs me. I dunno. Honestly, only about half the series takes itself properly seriously.
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2007, 02:54:19 AM »

I've never found comedic relief aimless.  It's just that, relief.  I hate anything that takes itself too seriously.  Yeah it's great to have serious stories, but there has to be some downtime in there or it all just becomes too overwhelming.  I actually liked Solt and Peppor,  I thought it was a great way of teaching the basics.  Better than menu tutorials or just having someone simply explain it to you.
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2007, 03:34:11 AM »

Quote from: "Ramza"
I posted months ago that FFV Advance also had the "attack its weakpoint for massive damage" quote in it.

And I think Raze's spoiler-text about sums it up. FFV isn't a very deep or serious game for starters, and if they wanna have a more light-hearted translation on a handheld port, I'm all for it.

Ramza


while that may be true i love character building wich ffV has a lot of via the job system. its one of the few FF games where i welcome random encounters. if ffx-2 didnt let you change jobs in battle i might of liked it more.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2007, 05:05:26 PM »

Actually, Solt and Peppor didn't bug me. Bad example. They WERE comedic relief, and nothing more. I mean, the game never plays them up to be SUPER WARRIAS and then has them be bafoons, ultimately. They're idiots from the getgo and nothing more.

And as for Nornstein beckler, I really just thought the whole Chrono revival thing in and of itself was sort of cheap. That wasn't comedic relief at all, actually. Shouldn't write when tired.

Anyway, what does bug me is when the comedic relief characters are given too much important. Like, having them deus ex machina a plot solution in. Sort of like Ultros. As a one off baddie that pops up and does something sort of goofy, he's alright. When he starts coming back again and again and again, he gets annoying. Especially when it's to crash otherwise serious scenes like the Opera that DON'T REALLY NEED IT. Comedic relief's to give breaks in between the heavy stuff, as far as I know. Not to completely kill the mood.

See also: Chu-Chu, and everything about that goddamn pink rat.

Also, by aimless comedic relief, uh... aimless isn't really the right term. Can't think of what I mean, really. What I was getting at was more silly moments that fit within the game's setting. More like Kyle and Jessica's interaction from Lunar, if you will, or the naked Nord quests from Morrowind. That's cool. I mean, I thought Oblivion was really melodramatic and lame BECAUSE it lacked some of the sillier quests. What I was more getting at was breaking the game's setting, logic, and forth wall to deliver a positively ancient internet meme that nobody will get, and that wasn't particularly funny when it started.

Also, erm, I like comedic relief, but I don't like self-parody. Parody in general usually turns out badly because nobody is creative enough or well-verse in what they're parodying enough to do it well (side note: Most people that do parodies seem to dislike what they're parodying, anymore. If you wanna parody it right, you have to actually like it). I'm not entirely sure why I dislike self-parody so much. I guess it usually just gives me vibes that the devs themselves aren't taking it seriously, or that they're taking jabs at the player. It's just, like, "Let's make an RPG about how stupid RPGs are! *fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*"
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 02:45:55 AM »

I'm also of the crowd that hates it when a game takes itself way too seriously.  I love comic relief in a game, even the stupid ones, because that's exactly what it is: a relief.  I doubt I'd like the Wild Arms games nearly as much if they didn't have obligatory annoyances like Zed, Liz & Ard, and the Schroedingers.

As for pop culture references, it's a bit iffy for me.  Working Designs tended to go a bit overboard with their games, so a lot of their lines were either funny or groan inducing.  "Knights do it two-handed" doesn't sound so much pop culture-ish as just general low humor, though.  I'm not too far into FFV Advance yet, but I'm waiting on a pirates vs. ninjas line.  Since, you know, both classes ARE in the game.  :P
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 01:17:10 PM »

The problem's not stories taking themselves too seriously, really. It's the problems that that can cause. Namely, stuff getting melodramatic and stuff getting funny when it's not *'sposed to.*

Except I don't think these necessarily have to be problems with a story taking itself too seriously. It's mostly a combination of a story that takes itself too seriously, CHARACTERS that take themselves too seriously, and having one of those big-arsed globe trotting adventures that covers EVERYTHING.

Oh, case in point. See, this is the main reason I like the little stories in Legend of Mana and Morrowind and Metal Saga and the SaGa games and Steambot Chronicles and other games with plots made of little vignettes like that. The stuff is generally normal and so it can take itself as serious as it wants, and still incorporate humor without it being out of place or mood-breaking. Especially cool in vignette games is like... well, in LoM, you had the heavier plot arcs with the Jumis and stuff, and then you had the lighter ones with, like, that bunny merchant. Morrowind's an even better example just because it has millions of quests. You have the darker stuff with the main plotline, and then you... have the quests involving pantsless nords. And it's cool because the plot is nonlinear, so if you WANT to jump out and get something sillier done, you can, and it's not forced on you, and hope to god you like where it's placed.

This is actually why I didn't like Oblivion. While it tended to take itself WAY too seriously, it was coupled with the fact that every single quest seemed to have too much importance. You weren't catching fish just to be a nice guy. You were catching fish because the quest giver had AIDS and his daughters were all going to get their legs cut off by orcs if you didn't catch enough fish for... some reason.

Here's another way to take yourself seriously write. Don't overwrite everything. LET'S TAKE THE SMT GAMES, SHALL WE? Nocturne takes itself seriously. That's obvious. However, the writing is minimalist -- maybe even sparse -- and incredibly objective. It's serious, but nothing is played up to be Supa OMG Important!!!

Of course, sometimes you need some humor, and I think the best way to do it is through have the characters be... humorous within the bounds of their personality. As I said, the writer should take the story seriously, but the characters don't really need to. People like Cielo or Raja or... even Kefka, really. These characters act funny, but they also have a serious side too, and really, by letting THEM have some of the humor, it really fleshes them out. Things like Ultros are silly, but they don't really add anything else. Alternatively, I think comedic relief characters like Fujin and Raijin, or, uh, Kiros and Ward, I guess, or even Solt and Peppor, if I remember correctly -- if they show more than just being silly, they also seem more fleshed out, and it seems like they add more.

I think my problem is with elements that are only there for the humor, and don't really work to add anything else to the story.
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o/` I do not feel joy o/`
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o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

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