Author Topic: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Frostillicus

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,564
    • View Profile
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #90 on: March 25, 2016, 12:33:29 PM »
Forrest Gump

I'm with you on that one. Tom Hanks definitely did a great job, but ultimately, that film has done little more than bore the shit out of me.

Dincrest

  • Foot-in-Mouth disease
  • RPGFan Editor
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15,487
  • Overuser of analogies, similes, and metaphors
    • View Profile
    • RPGFan
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #91 on: March 25, 2016, 09:17:34 PM »
Same.  I found Forrest Gump an absolute bore to watch.  

Anyway, I talk about this in the book thread, but 1984 is a book I wanted to have a positive opinion of, since it's a seminal work in the realm of dystopian fiction and all my contemporaries think it's brilliant, but it did nothing for me except bore me.  I loved Animal Farm, though, and have read it multiple times.  http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=24.msg395728#msg395728 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 09:31:18 PM by Dincrest »
"I think I'm losing it.  I'm pulling out my hair trying to figure out what couch defines me as a person.  This is freaking madness.  This is hopeless.  This... my perfect little habitat here, and I still don't even know who I am."  - from Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom by Burnt By The Sun

MeshGearFox

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10,520
  • HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!
    • View Profile
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #92 on: March 25, 2016, 10:13:13 PM »
1984 is a good example of letting your message overtake your narrative I guess? Especially in the part where it's literally just Dude's Manifesto of Stuff and not narrative at all?

On the plus hand, it did lead to my favorite Bowie album, so.

I was actually going to comment on my thoughts towards Suikoden 1 and SD3, but then it kinda hit me that "I want to love you, but I hate you" is inexorably linked with "I want to hate you, but I love you," and things got a lot more complicated.

In the sense that I COULD say that I want to like Suikoden because it has a strong atmosphere/style that really appeals to me, but I don't like it because mechanically it's really spare compared to 2/3/5; but I could also say that I don't want to like Suikoden 1 because mechanically it's really spared compared to 2/3/5, but I DO like it in spite of this because of the strong atmosphere/style.

It's just like a shift in the direction of the /transitivity of emotion/, dig?

Also my comma and semi-colon usage seem to have gone to hell over the past two hours. idk what's with.
o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Dincrest

  • Foot-in-Mouth disease
  • RPGFan Editor
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15,487
  • Overuser of analogies, similes, and metaphors
    • View Profile
    • RPGFan
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #93 on: March 26, 2016, 02:52:12 PM »
Mesh, I once had a topic that was "You're my type, but I'm just not that into you" and I talked about Lightning Returns- a game that wasn't my type at all, but I ended up enjoying it a LOT more than Bravely Default (which was totally "my type" on paper.)  

http://www.rpgfan.com/boards/index.php?topic=14755.0

As for 1984, it's one of many cases where it is good and I recognize it as good, but I simply didn't like it.  I feel that way about several video games, like Final Fantasy VI or Skies of Arcadia.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 02:55:47 PM by Dincrest »
"I think I'm losing it.  I'm pulling out my hair trying to figure out what couch defines me as a person.  This is freaking madness.  This is hopeless.  This... my perfect little habitat here, and I still don't even know who I am."  - from Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom by Burnt By The Sun

MeshGearFox

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10,520
  • HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!
    • View Profile
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2016, 04:18:59 PM »
... You know I knew there was a reason why I thought this thread was older than February.

-- edit --

Elaborating on previous comments:

Sudoku:

- The Suikoden world is really fleshed out and has all these unique elements going on but, despite its basis in Chinese literature, Suikoden 1 feels really generic eurofantasy.
- There's not much going on in the battles and all of the characters are kind of the same? Suikoden 3's attack animations taking like 20 years aside, 2/3/5 really improved on this for me. Also I seem to recall Suiko 1 being really restrictive wrt magic usage, whereas the other games had recharge points spaced out enough to keep it useful?
- I am an idiot and trading is my favorite goddamn thing in games and that didn't start till Suikoden 2.
- I want to marry Sgt. Joe a lot.

That being the case I don't actually dislike S1 by any means and it was just sort of a weird example I brought up -- it's more "I want to appreciate you on your own terms but I can only appreciate you

Psychic Dennis Kucinich 3:

SD3's legits a good example of this. It's a game I very much want to love because ffs, look at those screenshots. It's gorgeous. The music is amazing. It's got all the markings of this fantastic world that I want to inhabit and explore exceeeeeeept

I don't really like how SD3 plays and the big thing there is that the game feels like it really expect you to understand its mechanics. It's kind of an action RPG in name only -- combats slow and the hit detection's hazy and laggy enough that it never feels like the straight up melee bits matter more than the normal DPS attacks do in say FFXII or Xenoblade. So the big focus there is on the spells/skills your characters gets.

And again there's all this stuff with class changing and going down certain skill routes etc that the game expects you to minmax and normally that would be fine except:

A) Most of your options don't open up till midgame, when you hit the first class change.
B) Even when they do, there are too many classes and stats that either don't work thanks to bugs/design weirdity, or don't really work with /eachother/ and there's nothing in the game that indicates this. So it's way too easy to come up with parties that are increasingly less viable (or viable but too one-note to really be fun to play with). It's like in the second half of FFVI where it gets really stat-wonky with the espers only you have a lot less room for experimentation and no options for course correction.

I could cite similar issues I have with SoM and LoM but they don't really matter as much for me -- SoM's got a similar skew towards being too magic focused, but you only have three characters and you get access to ALL the magic so worst case scenario there is you underlevel a few spell sets and need to grind a bit; LoM's problem is that it's way too easy, but on the flipside that means you can ignore the stat wonk entirely -- because they don't put you in situations where you have one or two primary attackers and spend most of the battle just babysitting buffs and debuffs while the AI slowly attacks a largely stationary boss.


there's like no actual worldbuilding there.

So there's this big thing with LoM and SoM for me, where they have these really fleshed out settings with a lot of history that's never QUITE explained, and a post-post-apocalyptic nature that's never quite explained either. But between what you see and what's implied, they feel huge and real and like there's purpose behind all of those locations.

In SD3 it's like you get these really cool forests/temples/whatever, but they're just kind of there and there's no mystery to them and English really needs to evolve separate words for literal positional there and the more abstract, existential there.

Same thing goes for the narrative for me. It's just like, you have three nations going to war because they're being manipulated by clowns/furries and it's all very straightforward and just kind of stops after awhile and then giant disembodied heads happen.


Mother 1 is a good, nvm.

Mother 1:

Since I'm playing Mother 3 recently. I never got far in Mother 1 because the grind killed it for me, because there's a lot of grind. I don't mind frequent random encounters, it's just when you have to do circle-walking to level up that baerkalfdgklag. BESIDES THAT though I really enjoyed exploring the world. I mean yeah maybe a lot of it was empty foresty stuff, but so was Shadow of the Colossus, and there's something wonderfully contemplative about just /wandering/ like that.

It's really dumb because, and I think I'd mentioned this before, just flatly doubling/tripling exp/money gain in the VC release (or doing 4x exp gain with a halved encounter rate), would've probably fixed it.


Game Concepts as a Whole:

Mandatory minigames, especially where they idk involve riding nautiluses trying to find someone's weirdass hermit desert-mom.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 10:21:08 PM by MeshGearFox »
o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Artimicia

  • Banninated
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,453
    • View Profile
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #95 on: April 21, 2016, 04:07:03 PM »


Sudoku:

- The Suikoden world is really fleshed out and has all these unique elements going on but, despite its basis in Chinese literature, Suikoden 1 feels really generic eurofantasy.
- There's not much going on in the battles and all of the characters are kind of the same? Suikoden 3's attack animations taking like 20 years aside, 2/3/5 really improved on this for me. Also I seem to recall Suiko 1 being really restrictive wrt magic usage, whereas the other games had recharge points spaced out enough to keep it useful?
- I am an idiot and trading is my favorite goddamn thing in games and that didn't start till Suikoden 2.


Out of all the personally revised opinions, Suikoden is by far the most shocking to me. I never would of questioned the pre-eminence of 1/2 and part of 3 over the rest of 3 and 4/5... but.... honestly? Most of my memories of having the most fun go back to 3 and even 5 I realized, not as much 1 and 2, which again, considering how much I enjoyed them the first time around is kind of well, amazing.

Suikoden 1 and 2 were both really heavily involving from beginning to end in sorts of ways, but if you aren't really involved with the kind of main thrust it does in my opinion become much harder to like.



"I don't live by labels, I can be anything I want, I'd rather die a pauper than live on as someone else's fantasy!" - My best attempt at quoting the protagonist of Vandal Hearts 2.

Klyde Chroma

  • LVL. 71 Purple-cosmo-ninja-ranger
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2,335
    • View Profile
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2016, 01:24:01 PM »
While we are talking about Suikoden, I'm gonna throw this out there at the risk of being looked at like a crazy man.

Having just replayed both 1 and 2 in the "not so distant" past, I'm gonna lump 2 in with being exceedingly underwhelming in the same respects as 1. They were great games for their time, but the gameplay/difficulty is so broken in each that I found their only saving grace to be the writing.

That being said, the writing was (and still is) superb by my standards. Exceptional enough to redeem the titles, but by no means does it make the rest of the snore fest excusable. Exploitation of particular "Unite" attacks and characters make the game profoundly easy and negate any real reason to employ any other strategies. Worse yet, this imbalance undermines the games primary draw which by my measure was character choice.

That is, Suikoden 1 and 2's biggest offense was leaving me with zero motivation to utilize my favorite characters. This is the cardinal sin of the games given the fact that they actual had awesome and original casts. Ultimately though, at the end of the day, no matter what time you sink into your ideal team they don't hold a candle to the (obviously) superior choices of whom to comprise your party.

Sadly, even though I played all the main installments, the Suikoden franchise in its entirety, in retrospect, falls into the "I want to love you but I hate you" category appropriately enough for me. My motivation to replay the games was snuffed out by the time I finished 2 (again) when I finally identified this fact.
I am more a battlefield than a Ninja.
              

Artimicia

  • Banninated
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,453
    • View Profile
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2016, 08:56:09 PM »
I was going to say "Neogaf forums" which I had been going to look at the threads from time to time.

But honestly I think I just am not a fan period really.
"I don't live by labels, I can be anything I want, I'd rather die a pauper than live on as someone else's fantasy!" - My best attempt at quoting the protagonist of Vandal Hearts 2.

MeshGearFox

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10,520
  • HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!
    • View Profile
Re: The "I WANT TO LOVE YOU BUT I HATE YOU" Thread
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2016, 09:57:14 PM »
u got
hundreds of stars of destiny across all the games
but u need



just one

(real answer: The Trinity Site (Sight?) from S3 mitigated that quite a bit for me since it forces you to use a bunch of guys, and then assuming you don't go with Geddoe for the last the best characters do go with aren't super limited -- like, with Hugo you'll want Fubar because they combo, but the rest is pretty open. The guys you got earlier are going to be more leveled, so maybe fill out your party with two of them, and then two newer guys that interest you but are underleveled, etc.

But I mean again it doesn't matter because none of them are Chiepoo).

... Things my wallet hates: Browsing blogs about neat Japan-only Saturn games.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 12:12:06 AM by MeshGearFox »
o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`