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Author Topic: Suikoden V  (Read 52384 times)
Bogatyr
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« Reply #195 on: April 17, 2006, 11:13:30 AM »

Since we are on a rampant to criticise the game, let me say some things that are really bothering me.
First the minor issues. The - badly - fixed camera. The soundtrack is plain average. Menu navigation is pretty slow. Characters joining and leaving the party all the time. I admit it has been the same with the other Suikodens, but in this one sometimes the characters join just to leave 3 seconds later; by the way, what bothers me is not they joining and leaving, but the nonsensical and stupid message "characters joins your party"; "character leaves your party" popping out all the time. It just slows down the game, without any purpose.
Now for the bigger complaints. I really don't mind the load times, which are not that worse from other RPGs, but as I said before, the random encounter rate is KILLING. I can barely explore dungeons and the wold map before another battle erupts. That's the only thing that sometimes makes me want to turn my PS2 off after a few hours playing.
Also concerning battles, are they easy! I am around 20 hours in the game
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going to explode the Hatred Fortress right now
and so far I have been using Auto-Battle the whole time, against ALL enemies, which brings me to two other bothersome aspects of the game:
Come on, I am 20 hours far in the game, how about facing me against a FEW bosses? So far, I could only count 1 boss - well, it was the only battle which took me more than 3 Auto-Battle turns, so I guess thats a fair defition of boss. I am glad they gave us the traditional Suikoden battle system and all, but so far it has been in vain, as I just don't have any fun battling - No boss = no fun.
Which brings me to another complaint. I feel like the game has a really slow pace. No bosses, slow recruiting, so far not being able to manage my own base, etc. Considering I am as much hours far into the game as it took me to beat Suikoden I - more or less - and it is still like that, it worries me. Unless this game is really long though, of course, than this will turn to be a no complaint, as I will have the opportunity to equally enjoy all "phases" of a progressing Suikoden game.
The last complaint, which contributes to the above rant, is how much unnecessary back and forth useless travels you have to do - random battles only make it worse. Like with Lordlake for instance. I mean, why do I need those hungry and weak people as allies anyway? Let me look for different ones and keep up with the game, instead of going from A to B, than A to C only to be back to B again to resolve Lordlake's problem.
I suppose all my complaints are deeply interwined, and make a single huge downside of the game.
Fortunately the story keeps me going for it, and the certainty that I have not yet gotten to the cream of the game makes me enjoy dearly the hours I have put into the game so far.
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Lucid
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« Reply #196 on: April 20, 2006, 04:23:33 PM »

Okay, I just finished the game so here's some positives and negatives which I found. I hope my criticism is constructive. Be aware that there will probably be spoilers, and I dom't feel like littering my post with tags so if you have not completed the game be wary of reading this post.

positives;

+ Excellent voice acting. Most of the voice actors I recognized as actors in other mediums like anime, some of them veterans of voice acting. Very well done over all. My favorites were Gizel and Roy.

+Very well done political narrative and plot. 3 was extremely lacking in this which I thought was a large downside to the overall game. They did it very well in 5 by giving you a feeling of what it's like being embroiled in a civil war and seeing both sides motivations and those who believed in one side or the other. It's like they gave a voice to all the unknown people throught Falena. Some were with you, some in the middle and some on Gizel's side. Just like real life politics; a very complex array of beliefs. It also made the antagonists goals and motivations more human and realistic, whereas in 3 it was a little hacknyed with the antagonist simply wanting to kill lots of people for a seemingly deluded reason.

+Nice cast of characters. For one there wasn't a plethora of children like in 3, and also the character designs I found to be appealing(not that they weren't in 3). I'm wondering about what they're going to go to next in the animal kingdom for demi humans though >_>

+decent music. Not as good as 1 or 2,  and it did seem kind of repetetive.

Negatives

-Graphics were kind of bland. By this I mean the way they utilized them. They used a overhead immovable view for the game which really didn't draw me into the game that well. Especially exasperating was how they kept the camera so far out even for story scenes. I'd like to see more of the characters while stuff is going down. Also the character models in general seemed like a step back after suiko 4, the models in that for characters seemed more polished to me.

-A lot of the plot was too secretive. What I mean is that there was too many times where Lucretia would say she had a plan then not tell anyone, especially you the leader, you'd just have to end up seeing it in action as yo uplayed. A lame attempt at suspense I thought. On the Godwin side I thought they didn't show enough of them behind the scenes. Compared to  2 wher ewe saw a lot of Luca and Jowy and what they were doing, It seemed the only times they showed the Godwins was to have them say "our plans are working perfectly" Not much did we get to see their reactions to their defeats. This isn't good because I think it connects us more to the antagonist to see what they are feeling and how they react. Overall there was too much stuff going on behind the scenes that they should have showed us more of, it's a key element in a good drama in my opinion.

-missable characters. This was a blatantly cheap attempt at replay value. Like someone said before there is one character who if you miss, you miss 5 others as well. When characters leave and join and go back and forth that often it's difficult to realize which characters you should keep hassling or focus on at the moment to join you. Rubbish.

-loading times. This wouldn't be such a flaw if it weren't for the incessant amount of random fighting going on.

-The main character didn't feel that important. It felt to me like I was just some errand boy more than a leader and the Tenkai star. In the first 2(can't say for 4 havent got that far yet) you became like a symbol of hope and everything for people. In this it felt just because you were the prince you would set things right not because of who you were or whatever.

Overall I thought it was a great game, just not without some obvious flaws that came out more than 2 which is my favorite of them all.
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Dice
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« Reply #197 on: April 20, 2006, 04:53:29 PM »

Most complaints are very apparent, and have been listed.
It makes you wonder what they were thinking when programmming.  THe game is great, but it really has a real shitty interface.

The graphics are really bland, and there is a lack of dramatic lighting to help take your mind off it (all dungeons are perfectly lit up) .

The music isn't very ear-pleasing or memorable.

Load times- awful: games with larger maps and more intence battle systems [DDS, SO3] were 1/10 of this games loading.
I'm counting my blessings with the Champion Rune because of the poor battle-map transitions.

I liked Lucid's point about the main character feeling unimportant; he does seem more like an errand boy...

But I really did enjoy the plot, you don't see many political plots (especially in JPN RPG's) and it was very well done, especially since the battle system (IMO) is not exactly a strong point of the series.
The gameplay is ranking really high too, with all the extra stuff to do and sidequests.
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« Reply #198 on: April 20, 2006, 05:32:05 PM »

Heroes in 1 and 2 had that same errand boy thing going on so it's not like that's new. Your strategists are always doing things without telling you and  you always had to be the errand boy just because if you just stayed in the backlines most of the time like a leader should it wouldn't be much of a game. If anything it doesn't feel quite as bad in V because you're royalty and people kiss your ass more :P
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Testament
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« Reply #199 on: April 20, 2006, 05:58:28 PM »

Here are my overall thoughts on the game so far (I'm about 10 hours into it).

First thing...  Awful camera.  I don't know what they were thinking, perhaps trying to recreate the way the older games in the series looked?  In any case, it felt so strange sometimes.

Second thing...  Music is horrible.  I'm not that picky about stuff I don't like.  I can play through a game with average in-game tunes (such as Xenosaga Episode II) and not really remember it seconds after it stops or changes tracks.  But I so rarely hear music that just makes me upset.  Some tunes are average, others are just plain bad.

Third thing...  Balance.  I know some character will naturaly be stronger then others according to the story.  However, it should never, ever in a Japanese RPG, which has instanced battles, be apart of the battle system.

My only three gripes with the game so far...

However, so far I am really enjoying...

The characters, I'm really enjoying getting to know them.
The amount of player input.  Lots of dialogue promts that can make a difference.  So rare in Japanese RPGs.
Battle system has it's ups and downs for the most part though, it can be interesting (A bit to easy at times though).
Plot is building up rather nicely and has remain interesting right from the start

A lot of potential from were I stand, just hope it remains this way through the rest of the game.
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Lucid
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« Reply #200 on: April 20, 2006, 06:40:25 PM »

Quote
Heroes in 1 and 2 had that same errand boy thing going on so it's not like that's new. Your strategists are always doing things without telling you and you always had to be the errand boy just because if you just stayed in the backlines most of the time like a leader should it wouldn't be much of a game.

It's true that you ran errands in the other installments, however what you did seemed more integral to the overall success of your cause. Like the fire spears in 1 or the greenhill stuff in 2. They felt more like missions than errands. In 5 it seems to be mostly go talk to this leader to get them on our side. Mathiu and Shu seemed to explain their strategy more than Lucretia, whom I found to be saying she had a plan then you all hope it works out whatever it is. Like when
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she tells you to abandon the castle. Does she tell you why that would be a good plan really? No, it's not until it's all going down then she says by the way take Zweig and mess with the sluice gates. It just gave me more of a sense of that errand boy-ness. If I'm in charge I want to be told evcerything that  is planned before it happens, right? It was kind of pointless to give me the decision to abandon the castle or not without knowing everything about the strategy behind both options.
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Marshmallow
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« Reply #201 on: April 20, 2006, 07:14:05 PM »

Hey, guess what. Mark your fucking spoilers. Kthx.

And yes, some of that counts as a spoiler. I'm not yet that far in the game.
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Hathen
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« Reply #202 on: April 20, 2006, 07:16:31 PM »

Well, secretive strategists arn't anything new, in games or in real life for that matter. That chinese proverb probably says it best: "Don't let your plans get into six ears." You never know when someone's going to backstab you.

Maybe I'm reading a little deep into it, but the one that Lucid mentioned I figured out myself, since you did that earlier in the game (sorta) it kind of imprinted already.
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Lucid
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« Reply #203 on: April 20, 2006, 07:25:05 PM »

Hathen- regardless, as the leader aren't you the one that should be in the know? I mean you can't really backstab yourself =p. That one was just an example anyways, it seemed like that most of the time with Lucretia. I think strategists are often the real power behind the scenes. It felt like I was more of a tool of Lucretia's than a cooperative force behind the scenes as I felt in previous games.

Marshmallow- Don't ask me to respect you, while being disrespectful. I apologize for the spoiler.
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Dade
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« Reply #204 on: April 20, 2006, 07:31:52 PM »

You didnt bother reading the board rules regarding spoilers did you?

YAY FOR BEING A RETARD.
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« Reply #205 on: April 20, 2006, 07:33:19 PM »

It was a slip. Sheesh, grow up. I've been posting here for years. I know the rules. This is why I marked spoilers In my previous post in this thread.
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Hathen
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« Reply #206 on: April 20, 2006, 08:04:23 PM »

Well, seeing as how the style of this game is based off mostly Ancient Chinese/Japanese history, that's kind of they way it was: Kings and Princes were often educated, but they wern't always masters of strategy. Seeing as how the Prince isn't in line for the throne, he probably didn't get educated as much (Lym had afternoon studies but Prince didn't).

Besides, I think it's in Lucretia's blood. After all,
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she backstabs plenty of people, so I'm pretty sure she feels the need to keep a lot of things in the dark.


By the way, what the HELL is with Richard? Totally overpowered, I wish he was the one that
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was involved in winning the Sacred Games, he would've totally kicked ass.
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Lucid
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« Reply #207 on: April 20, 2006, 08:12:36 PM »

Yeah I guess the whole being a prince part does play a lot into how you're treated. I guess I wish you could have gone beyond that as a figure for your cause. I felt even more of a figurehead in this one than any other previous one.

some more opinions on some elements, these are spoiler free.

•the millitary combat was an improvment over 3, and in some ways over 2. However some of the mechanics were annoying, like when you defeat an enemy unit they are forced back the direction they were coming. One time I actually lost because they got forced into a spot that if they occupied, they win. All because of the way they were facing when then engaged mine. I liked the little mini scenes for when your soldiers engage each other.

•The combat formations for normal fighting was excellent.
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GhaleonOne
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« Reply #208 on: April 20, 2006, 11:23:16 PM »

Regarding Richard...

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"By the way, what the HELL is with Richard? Totally overpowered, I wish he was the one that"

No joke dude. Mueller treats him like he's an annoying weakling, but he's made for an excellent fighter, and I have a tough time sometimes when trying to take my favorite characters intead of him. He's just such a powerhouse.
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« Reply #209 on: April 21, 2006, 12:01:02 AM »

Quote from: "Hathen"
By the way, what the HELL is with Richard? Totally overpowered, I wish he was the one that
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was involved in winning the Sacred Games, he would've totally kicked ass.


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He WAS involved in the Sacred Games. In fact, the Godwins so feared the chance of him winning they made a little girl give him poison cookies (or candy, I forgot) that paralyzed his legs so that he'd lose to Childerich.

Oboro's investigation of him also had Belcoot saying that had he faced Richard, he would've lost. Richard was just that good.


Also, on the thing of missable characters: ALL the games had missable characters, and besides, if you missed 1 character you just screwed yourself out of the good endings and would've needed to replay ANYWAY.

And about the errand boy thing, do I even need to remind anyone of Suikoden 1's "Oh hey give this star ... report... thing to Leknaat." That was even more retarded than anything in this game.

Also, I have no clue why some people are saying the music sucks. I love the music. I think it's totally awesome.

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Lastly, about the abandoning your castle thing, it makes sense in the short run anyway. Live to fight another day, or ... stay in the castle and DIE. Lucretia even explains it to you when she proposes the idea. It seemed quite logical to me.
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