Author Topic: Things you can't bear in a JRPG  (Read 18140 times)

Arvis

  • Prudish Gerontophobe
  • RPGFan Survey Hero
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,215
  • Computer Over. Virus = Very Yes.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2018, 09:34:47 AM »
The power of love and friendship is still THE way to defeat the big-bad.  It was cheesy ~20 years ago and it's still cheesy now.

I see what you mean here, of course, but what's the alternative?  Winning because you have a better weapon?  Defeating the villain because your violence is more violent than his violence?  LOL
It's a tough one. :)
"You know, you're pretty cool too, Arvis.  You like good music, good games, and good tennis." - Divingfalcons

Mickeymac92

  • RPGFan Survey Hero
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,836
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #76 on: August 09, 2018, 09:58:15 AM »
^How about a JRPG where the fate of all life isn't at stake? Allowing both the solution and reasons for fighting to be more unique, and creatively tied to our heroes that we spend so much time getting to learn about and struggling alongside? Eh? Ehhhhhh?

...Yeah, you're right, stupid idea, forget I said anything...

As for things I can't bear in RPGs? I think I already said difficulty spikes a while back, but even more than those, I dislike any sort of time-pressure in games, especially if it means missing out on whole swaths of content. I can tolerate them in some forms, but the more it's tied into overall progression and used to justify multiple playthroughs or guides, the more it becomes a problem for me. I prefer to get everything I can on the first playthrough, and if that means missing out on important character moments because I didn't follow every obscure step down to the letter, or it becomes incredibly stressful every minute I'm playing the game, then it's just not fun anymore. I don't play games just to dump time down the drain, I want to experience new and interesting worlds. If I'm on a second playthrough, then it's not new anymore, and if I'm utilizing a guide, then I'm living through someone else's experience, not making my own.

“MY NAME IS POKEY THE PENGUIN I LOVE CHESS!! IT IS LIKE BALLET ONLY WITH MORE EXPLOSIONS!”
I Draw Stuff Sometimes

Dincrest

  • RPGFan Editor
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15,824
    • View Profile
    • RPGFan
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #77 on: August 09, 2018, 10:05:10 AM »
The best instance of "the power of love" was in Billy & Mandy's Big Boogey Adventure when Irwin uses the power of love to save Mandy from the Boogeyman. 

https://youtu.be/8s8VC4kmoyE?t=2715 (watch from here till 47:30.)

The conversation between Billy and Grim about the power of love around 45:44 still makes me LOL. 



« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:12:22 AM by Dincrest »
You can brag about your 5000+ friends on social media all you want, but riddle me this: how many of them would help you move?

Arvis

  • Prudish Gerontophobe
  • RPGFan Survey Hero
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3,215
  • Computer Over. Virus = Very Yes.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #78 on: August 09, 2018, 10:17:03 AM »
^How about a JRPG where the fate of all life isn't at stake? Allowing both the solution and reasons for fighting to be more unique, and creatively tied to our heroes that we spend so much time getting to learn about and struggling alongside? Eh? Ehhhhhh?

...Yeah, you're right, stupid idea, forget I said anything...

LOL, some of my favorite RPGs do this, like Trails in the Sky 1 and Cold Steel 1.  Their sequels tend to swing pretty close to "the fate of all life is at stake", but still.
"You know, you're pretty cool too, Arvis.  You like good music, good games, and good tennis." - Divingfalcons

Agent D.

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,841
  • Agent Bewear.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #79 on: August 09, 2018, 01:00:23 PM »
Needs more revenge plotlines.

TASTY!

Dincrest

  • RPGFan Editor
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15,824
    • View Profile
    • RPGFan
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #80 on: August 09, 2018, 05:37:35 PM »
Revenge plotlines are fairly common too.  Evil Empire razes protagonist's hometown, so he goes out to get revenge on the evil empire. 

Revelations: Persona for Playstation was unique in that though there was a "big bad" type villain, the real motivation was to save your friend (with mental health issues) from herself. 

And as a semi-tangent to the thread, I've learned to be careful what I wish for.  For example, I used to be in the camp that thought random encounters were outdated and visible encounters should be the standard.  But then I played Lufia: Ruins of Lore where I actually wanted random encounters because the visible encounters were done in the worst possible way.  http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/lufia_rol/index2.html
As another example, I normally despise breakable weapons in my RPGs and question those RPGs that lack shops (e.g. Xenosaga 2) yet I rather liked Hexyz Force (which had breakable weapons and no shops.) http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/Hexyz_Force/index.html



« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 06:05:16 PM by Dincrest »
You can brag about your 5000+ friends on social media all you want, but riddle me this: how many of them would help you move?

Aeolus

  • This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10,779
  • Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #81 on: August 09, 2018, 06:06:57 PM »
But then I played Lufia: Ruins of Lore

You have my condolences.
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.

Dincrest

  • RPGFan Editor
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15,824
    • View Profile
    • RPGFan
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #82 on: August 09, 2018, 06:13:11 PM »
Ruins of Lore was awful, but I have played worse.  I have a morbid fascination with bad gaming and have reviewed more than my fair share of garbage for the site (though I thankfully did not review Ruins of Lore.) 
You can brag about your 5000+ friends on social media all you want, but riddle me this: how many of them would help you move?

Aeolus

  • This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10,779
  • Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #83 on: August 09, 2018, 06:42:38 PM »
Ruins of Lore was awful, but I have played worse.  I have a morbid fascination with bad gaming and have reviewed more than my fair share of garbage for the site (though I thankfully did not review Ruins of Lore.)

How far did you get? Because the endgame just completely falls apart with bugs, glitches, bad writing and horrible unbalance (I had my post Ancient Cave protagonist fucking solo that bitch; especially since he gets a massive plot based buff for the final dungeon).

That said, yeah. There's easily worse dreck out there (Lunar: Dragon Song, White Knight Chronicles 1 & 2, Beyond the Beyond, etc).
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.

Agent D.

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,841
  • Agent Bewear.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #84 on: August 09, 2018, 07:58:32 PM »
Lufia Ruins of Lore was fun once you stopped caring about the story andnjust did the ancient cave. I dug the music, but I've always had a good appreciation for Lufia's music scene (dat sinistral theme yo....). I mean it's not great but it's no star ocean 5.

But as far as revenge plotlines go, you have openings there besides a single option. Person ruined your life, our for revenge. Persons killed your family, out for revenge. Persons stole your kingdom, out for revenge. I mean you're gonna fight them in the end, and the idea is you can either sate your bloodlust or rise above them, but the story can evolve quite nicely.


TASTY!

Aeolus

  • This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10,779
  • Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #85 on: August 09, 2018, 09:12:29 PM »
Lufia Ruins of Lore was fun once you stopped caring about the story andnjust did the ancient cave. I dug the music, but I've always had a good appreciation for Lufia's music scene (dat sinistral theme yo....). I mean it's not great but it's no star ocean 5.

Except that RoL's Ancient Cave sucked ass, considering the fact that you were limited to your MC and his Disk Monster only, Providences were not a reliable drop on any floor, and I don't recall there being a Blue Treasure Chest mechanic to give you a leg up on subsequent runs. You were allowed to bring in Eldin's & DM's Levels and Skills/Spells though which only meant that you couldn't expect to run the dungeon until the late/endgame anyways, and that you basically had to plan your run throughout the whole game by picking relevant Classes early (which were basically the Priest and Thief classes since everything else was either a stat buff or were bogged down with useless skills/resource hog spells.

And then the Disk Monster mechanic also sucked balls too, but that was more of a matter of RoL chasing that early 00s Pokemon knockoff trend.

The two things that amused me post RoL's Ancient Cave were Eldin's Disk Monster being significantly higher level than everyone else in the party (with significantly better stats too, even after your party members merge with their DMs), aside from Eldin who's significantly higher level and stated than his DM (mostly because he can't run away/get knocked out like the DM can and frequently will; also because of all the stat boosting monoliths and that endgame plot buff, on top of all the bestest equipment in the game); and that this is doubly true of that Furry party member (I don't remember his name, all I remember is that he's one of the saddest wastes of space I've seen in a JRPG party; can't do the DM thing at all, can't take a Class, can't learn any skills or spells, has shitty stats except for Atk which is only mediocre, shitty equipment options too, none of which he can use because he joins horribly underleveled to begin with, and IIRC has to get booted from the party for a solid while to make room for Dekar).

Actually, now that I think about it. The real plot of RoL was in getting Dekar some action. Once he permanently leaves the party, the remainder of the game just about hemorrhages itself apart.
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.

Dincrest

  • RPGFan Editor
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15,824
    • View Profile
    • RPGFan
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #86 on: August 10, 2018, 05:48:19 AM »
I think it was in some sewer dungeon where I decided to shelve Ruins of Lore. 

The only Lufia game worth remembering is Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals.  The rest of the series has been meh at best. 

Lufia: Ruins of Lore is a case study in what NOT to do in a JRPG. 
You can brag about your 5000+ friends on social media all you want, but riddle me this: how many of them would help you move?

Agent D.

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4,841
  • Agent Bewear.
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #87 on: August 10, 2018, 08:41:04 AM »
Jeez...game wasn't even that horrible....

TASTY!

Dincrest

  • RPGFan Editor
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15,824
    • View Profile
    • RPGFan
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #88 on: August 10, 2018, 09:02:33 AM »
Yes it was. 

Lufia is a series that had so much potential, but never realized it.  Lufia and the Fortress of Doom was alright.  Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals was a SNES masterpiece.  Lufia: The Legend Returns was a disappointment.  Ruins of Lore was dumpster trash.  Curse of the Sinistrals wasn't bad, but like most remakes of classics, the original was still way better.

Yeah, that's something I can't bear- when a game/series has so much potential yet completely wastes it.  Several of my reviews mention me shouting "But you had so much potential!!!!!!" at games like an exasperated parent or teacher.

Star Ocean is notorious for wasting its potential over the course of the entire series.  With a name like Star Ocean... that evokes images of the night sky, outer space, traveling through the stars, interplanetary exploration.  It's a name that screams "space opera" yet rarely delivers on that.

Even if Star Ocean did take place on a backwater planet for a while, why not let it be a story about a kid who's fascinated by the stars, fascinated by the idea of traveling in space, and loves to study, but everyone in his/her backwater community thinks s/he's an aimless dreamer or just plain stupid and should "get your head out of the clouds and keep your feet on the ground.  Your parents are getting older and you need to run their farm or inherit their corner store or take over their inn." 

"...to sail the star ocean.  That's always been my dream.  This little town is great and all, but I want more out of life.  Not just see the world, but see beyond it."

And the story becomes a heartfelt story about a dreamer who perseveres in the face of opposition.  Against all odds, they find their way to rocket science school, endure the harshness of school elitism, create a few prototype rockets that fail miserably, but never lose sight of the star ocean.   

This little idea of mine isn't reinventing the wheel as far as JRPG storytelling goes, but it's at least trying to make "star ocean" a thematic element. 

Grandia 3 is another one that had potential to be amazing, but completely screwed the pooch.    Grandia 3 could have been wonderful, simple, heartfelt story about a boy, his plane, the unbridled joy of flight, meeting his inspiration... oh, and it COULD have done the parent-child relationship thing really well.  It could, nay SHOULD, have been a simple journey of a boy chasing his dream and leaving the nest.  A good theme to tie into that could, nay should, have been his mom's psychological journey coming to grips with her son becoming a man and not her little boy any more (though any mom will always view her son as "her little boy" no matter how old he gets.) 

...but then Alfina came along and messed it all up with a whole host of stupid JRPG cliches. 

I wanted more about Sky Captain Schmidt and Yuki's mom. 

Grandia 3's saving grace was its gameplay.  Grandia has always had one of my favorite battle systems, and it was particularly refined in 3.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 09:47:05 AM by Dincrest »
You can brag about your 5000+ friends on social media all you want, but riddle me this: how many of them would help you move?

Der Jermeister

  • Banninated
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 993
  • Mission Accomplished
    • View Profile
Re: Things you can't bear in a JRPG
« Reply #89 on: August 10, 2018, 11:20:33 AM »
I personally find the Kingdom Hearts games to have potential as well, particularly when it comes to humor as one would expect from a mashup, but they largely fail in that regard. Hearing comical-voiced characters like Mickey, Donald, and Goofy in games mostly devoid of comedy is pretty damn awkward, in my opinion.
Public Blog
LiveJournal
RPG Reviews
DeviantArt Gallery

Every man is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.
-Daniel Patrick Moynihan