Author Topic: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses

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Aeolus

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Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« on: March 08, 2018, 02:39:12 AM »
In before yet another Kozaki designed Male/Avatar (but clearly implied to default to Male) Sword Lord (take THAT Leif).

But yeah, the next Nintendo Direct was announced yesterday, set for today, its highly likely that we'll finally get something from that announced FE Switch from that FE Direct last year, but I'll be finishing up my deliveries for the day on the opposite side of town when this goes down, and I really wanted to make the above joke. Link to the offending Direct: https://gematsu.com/2018/03/switch-3ds-focused-nintendo-direct-set-march-8 (watch it totally have nothing worthwhile, let alone anything about any supposed FE Switches)

Basically, I'm really hoping for a Female Lord this time (or at least a Female Lord that's not incompetent/overshadowed by the male lords; i.e. Lucina if she were an actual Lord instead of an honorary one (outside of certain DLC)), and preferably one sans the crotch window (I'll endure Miniskirts and/or Bicycle Shorts). Basically, I'd like a female FE character to get a Prf that isn't also on her male counterpart and not added to a remake because IntSyst decided to make their dramatic change there (last one was Thani all the way back in FE10). Bonus points if the Lord this time is a Bow or Staff Lord instead of yet another Sword Lord.

Other hopes include it actually being good, and having an artist that isn't Kozaki (he got better with Fates, but I still feel like his designs are too messy and not actually well designed; especially the female stuffs).


And hell, if this does turn out to be a total bust, then I'll repurpose this as a general Megathread (although the Heroes talk can remain in that thread since it'd just bury this one).
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 01:13:39 PM by Aeolus »
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Limlight

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Re: The Next Fire Emblem Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 02:31:20 PM »
was choosing between m/f  in fates such a bad thing? I liked having the option. Also, being able to pick weapon type would be nice for a change.

Arvis

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Re: The Next Fire Emblem Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 03:36:29 PM »
being able to pick weapon type would be nice for a change.

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Starmongoose

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Re: The Next Fire Emblem Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 05:45:45 PM »
Well, so much for that.


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Aeolus

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Re: The Next Fire Emblem Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 06:46:59 PM »
Well, so much for that.

I guess we got 'a' Smash Bros, but I suspect its merely a Switch port of For. The rest was just ports and DLC. I guess Directs can finally join Iwata in the afterlife.


was choosing between m/f  in fates such a bad thing? I liked having the option. Also, being able to pick weapon type would be nice for a change.

Not so much that as it felt like the games heavily implied that Birthright was written for Male Corrin while Conquest was written for Female Corrin. Plus Avatars tend to lead to situations like Fate's Hyperbolic Time Chambers while not helping out characters like Say'ri or Scarlet due to their Avatar-sexual status.
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Rook

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Re: The Next Fire Emblem Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 07:54:06 PM »
I wouldn't mind them using the Echoes battle system or at least nerf the power that some weapons have over other players (that's a nice 18th level pegasus knight you have, I hope you don't mind me sending it to heaven with one arrow). Also feel free to ripoff Banner Saga's 1-3 battle penalty for your player getting axed or severely wounded.

Aeolus

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 01:19:15 PM »
Necroing this thread now that we've actually have the goddamn reveal.

Not really sure what to post right now though because there was a crapton of data and not much time to process it.

For instance, it looks like battles can finally involve faceless generics ala Langrisser. Also you can train characters in certain weapon proficiencies, and you've got free move ala Echoes. I'll edit when I get my hands on more info.

Anyways, the release window is currently set for Spring 2019.
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Alisha

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 01:22:17 PM »
trailer from the direct looks epic and less moe blog than awakening and fates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX6eay2J-0c

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Arvis

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 02:45:03 PM »
Well, this is frickin' awesome.  My hype for this couldn't be higher.
"You know, you're pretty cool too, Arvis.  You like good music, good games, and good tennis." - Divingfalcons

Rucks

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 05:21:07 PM »
will get

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 10:25:36 AM »
I discussed it briefly on the discord with a few folks after the reveal, but I guess I'll give my thoughts here.

1. First visual impression is that the art style is very out-of-the-norm for FE. Looks a lot like the artist for Persona. I like it.

2.  The units still have HP bars for the named character, so I'm guessing the generic soldiers are mostly there as a visual flair, which I don't mind at all because it makes the battles look a lot more large-scale and realistic in what a typical FE story is.

3. That being said, the battle commands included a "formation" command and they showed that triangle formation piercing through its opponents, so I'm expecting a system where formations might have a weapon triangle of its own, it causes certain stat changes (ie offensive formation gives you +5 ATK -5 DEF or something), or both.

4. I'm not against an avatar character like some people I know because it offers something gameplay-wise, but its impact on the story and characterizations in Awakening and especially Fates is pretty well-documented. I'm uncertain about the Avatar seeming to be in a teacher role this time- if it's done right it works as a way to insert the character in a non-intrusive fashion, but I'm concerned it'll instead have "watch over me senpai" stupidity attached to it.

5. The small amounts we got about the story around the crests being handed down from a deity makes me think the story may have heavy religious themes, which is what interested me the most. Despite my previous point I do get the impression that this entry is going to be a lot darker/serious than the last one, and in a good way.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:29:17 AM by Hathen »

Aeolus

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 11:11:55 AM »
https://serenesforest.net/2018/06/12/three-houses-e3-2018-trailer-analysis/#more-46162

So here's a breakdown of the trailer and random assorted website data that currently exists.

Basically, the main character is that Edgy Marth looking dude who, get this, will act as an advisory/instructor role to one of your 3 Aristocrats of choice (almost like some sort of Tactician or something). Hopefully, there will be customization of some degree.

Said 3 Aristocrats (Edgelord, DAB or President Ragen Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude) are most likely your means into one of the titular Three Houses (Adrastea, Fergus and Leicester respectfully), although whether or not you can switch between them or have to make an early game choice (ala Fates) remains to be seen.

Main continent is named Fodlan (so no Fatesistan like Fates).

Game's subtitle in Japan is 'Four Seasons'. Make of this what you will.

Battle scale seems to be a whole lot closer to Tellus' Bushes and lack of Forts, versus your general 1 tile sized buildings.

The Edel (guard) is seen picking from a bunch of different options during battle, including Attack, Magic, Combat Arts, Formation, and all the rest. While she's picking from these options, she has a bunch of Red Lines directed towards her from surrounding enemies, most likely indicating who'll be targeting her come Enemy Phase. As for the options themselves, one could assume that the devs are taking a page from Gaiden/Echoes with Magic being its own thing (that may or may not cost HP to use) and special abilities from your equipped weapon (that'll also probably cost HP to use). While Formation is shown later on when noted Dodongo animal companion Dimitri has his faceless goons form up in front of him in a Triangle formation.

Combat Skills (ala Vantage and Wrath) and Weapon Durability have returned, and likely Weapon Weight as well given the stats that Edgeguard shows in her match up versus Mercedes Benz, but not the Weapon Triangle (Edelgard starts her attack with an Axe that displays 71% Hit and a big fat goose egg for AS (Attack Speed); when engaging Sword wielding Mercedes, she's only losing 4% Hit while getting Doubled, which, given Mercedes terribad stats (dat 13 HP) isn't as stark of a difference as it should be if WT were in play).

A detail that the article also seems to overlook is the possible formula for converting Skill, Spd and Luck into AS and Crit chances and the Doubling threshold (putting this in spoilers to prevent the cross-eye status effect)
Spoiler: show
Again to the matchup between Edelgard and Mercedes, Edelgard starts with a weapon that has 71% Hit and 5% Crit but 0 AS. When fighting Mercedes, she loses 4% Hit and 2% Crit to an enemy that can Double her. Assuming that Mercedes has anywhere from 1 to 8 AS to achieve Doubling, the 4% Hit loss can be accounted in the following cases (1 AS = 4% Avoid, 2 AS = 2% Avoid, 4 AS = 1% Avoid and 8 AS = .5% Avoid). But also considering the 2% Crit loss, the formula would have to also involve anywhere from 1 to 4 Luck (1 Luck = 2% Evade, 2 Luck = 1% Evade, 3 Luck = .75% Evade rounded down or 4 Luck = .5% Evade), which tends to affect Avoid as well. That eliminates the possibilities of 1 AS = 4% Avoid and 8 AS = .5% Avoid and changes the remaining possibilities. The math starts to get exponentially long at this point so to get to the final possibilities assuming we need consider Doubling on a 0 AS unit, traditional Spd and Luck values, no Weapon Triangle or outside skills/supports/formation effects, you have (+1 AS to Double at 2% or 3% Avoid with 2 Luck at either +1% or +.5% Avoid and 1% Evade, +4 AS to Double at .75% Avoid with 2 Luck with +.5% Avoid and 1% Evade, +5 AS to Double at .5% Avoid with 3 or 4 Luck at +.5% Avoid and either .75% Evade or .5% Evade, or +1 AS to Double at 1% or 2% Avoid with 3 or 4 Luck at either +1% or .5% Avoid and .75% or .5% Evade), but at this point in time, we simply do not have enough datapoints to make an accurate determination.


Ignoring all of that though are some of the other combats shown during the trailer, one bearing interest involving MyCharacter Ryleth MC Byleth charging an Archer who has combat stats on the combat forecast (i.e. looks like Archers can counter at 1 Rng).

Also, something something Dragons, something, fancy Prf Swords, something something, Centralized Theocracy, and Crests (including a mural depicting 21 Crests (with four rendered illegible, and three being depicted as the Crest for each of the currently named Aristocrats' house; the one at the 12'o Clock belonging to House Adrastea, the one at the 4:45 position belonging to House Fergus and the one on 9'o Clock belonging to House Leicester); does this portend to the return of Holy Blood mechanics ala FE4?, and more importantly, Eugenics?).
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.

Greganox

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 11:31:27 PM »
Fire Emblem is both my second favourite Nintendo franchise and video game series in general. I don't own a Switch yet but this may convince me down the road. The most striking for me so far is the new art style. I think I'll end up appreciating it just as I did with the last game, Echoes.

(i.e. looks like Archers can counter at 1 Rng).
This is good to hear as that's been a common complaint for the class for a long time. The lack of 1 range is a big a big reason I'm not a fan of the class. I Ioved using archers in Echoes though thanks to 1 range and all the extra range boosts plus movement you get when you promote.

Aeolus

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Re: Fire Emblem: [s]Tree[/s] Three Houses
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 03:15:01 AM »
(i.e. looks like Archers can counter at 1 Rng).
This is good to hear as that's been a common complaint for the class for a long time. The lack of 1 range is a big a big reason I'm not a fan of the class. I Ioved using archers in Echoes though thanks to 1 range and all the extra range boosts plus movement you get when you promote.

Oh man. Here we go, here comes the Archer discussion. [sperg]

The Archer's (and by extension, the Sniper, and similar Bow using classes) main problem has always been in its implementation rather than design. Bows are too weak and don't do enough to justify not having Enemy Phase action beyond specific set ups. Early game Archers' base stats are usually bad to awful, and don't get good enough growth rates to compensate. They're often also underleveled, and don't even get a Thief style exp gain bonus to help at all. They compete directly with Magic (which hit weaker defenses and are more specialized classes to begin with), and ubiquitous Hand Axes/Javelins. And there's usually a later Sniper or Bow Knight who can do a better (if at least passable) job than the starting Archer could ever hope to do.

Take for instance FE 8. Your starting Archer is Neimi who joins in Chapter 3 as a Level 1 Archer with 17 HP, 4 Str, 5 Skl, 6 Spd, 4 Lck, 3 Def, 2 Res and 5 Con, who compared with your initial Level 3 Staffbot Moulder from Chapter 2 and his 20 HP, 4 Str Mag, 6 Skl, 9 Spd, 1 Lck, 2 Def, 5 Res and 9 Con, gets utterly stomped in everything but Luck. Likewise, Bows in FE8 are roughly as strong as Swords, but only have Killer, Brave, Longbow and Nidhogg as non-standard weapons compared to Swords and their Armor/Wyrmslayers/Zambato, Lancereavers, Wind/Rune Swords, etc. on top of their two standard types. The 2x effective damage multiplier doesn't help much either (nor the general lack of flying enemies in FE8), nor does the Sniper exclusive skill Sure Strike (which guarantees the attack will hit; on a class that generally doesn't have trouble hitting things). And of course her two Promotions can be covered by Innes and Gerik (the former of which is already a Sniper).

I could go on with the many other examples from many other games, but generally speaking, Archers in the older games have been generally undervalued by the devs way too aggressively. If your Archers had decent stats or a way to stand out from all the other ranged options beyond being anti-flier (especially in games where there aren't many fliers around), you'd get something worthwhile (see also: Fates; Echoes is a weird case where there aren't a whole lot of options to begin with, stats generally suck on them, and Gaiden lacked anti-air, nevermind enemies that counted as Flying, but who can argue with a 8 Move Bow Knight with 1~5 Range and a fully Forged Mastered Killer Bow in hand?, especially if they had been a Dread Fighter at some point).
[/sperg]
In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.