Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 01, 2014, 03:34:58 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
RPGFan Community Quiz
Next Quiz Date: January 11, 2014
Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
For more information click HERE!
330095 Posts in 13528 Topics by 2179 Members
Latest Member: Lian_Kazairl
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  Media
| |-+  Single-Player RPGs
| | |-+  Best RPG based on writing quality, alone...
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Print
Author Topic: Best RPG based on writing quality, alone...  (Read 7982 times)
Prime Mover
Posts: 2792


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2007, 09:06:54 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
CT didn't really set out to accomplish much, though.


That's exactly my point. It was not very ambitious, yet I think it achieved everything it set out to do... and more. Where-as the others tried to be ambitious, and looked silly and contrived because the authors really didn't have anything to "say" with them.

I'm not making a case for lack of ambition... but if you're going to be ambitious, do so with a purpose, not simply for the sake of "being ambitious". That's what I get out of Xenogears and Chrono Cross.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
Krelian
Posts: 305


Member
*

pmtome@hotmail.com
View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2007, 01:36:47 PM »

Vagrant Story
Logged

Sona mi areru ec sancitu
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8461


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2007, 06:46:08 PM »

CC and XG were completely different in narrative structure, style, and whatever goals they set out to accomplish. I'm not sure what paralells you're trying to draw.
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Prime Mover
Posts: 2792


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2007, 08:52:11 PM »

I'm not drawing any parellels, except that both were made by the same team, and both were incredibly flawed in their storytelling.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
Fadedsun
Posts: 1746


Sunny Summoner

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2007, 08:56:40 PM »

Chrono Cross was made by Monolith Soft?
Logged

"Oh, a hunter..."
Eusis
Administrator
Posts: 11794


Member
*


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2007, 09:06:17 PM »

Quote from: "Fadedsun"
Chrono Cross was made by Monolith Soft?

Depends on what you mean. When they went under that name, no, and neither was XG so that'd be a stupid question. By the same people however, yeah. Key CC staff were responsible for BK.
Logged
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8461


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2007, 01:07:34 AM »

The biggest storytelling flaws in XG were the plot twists stemming mostly from information that was denied without good reason -- in other words, you realize X is in fact true or Y is in fact false, but mostly because it's revealed, or not revealed, without any good reason. CC doesn't particularly have many plot twists of this nature, so I don't see the association.

And as far as I can tell, the only particular stylistic flaw that CC has that CT doesn't is the pacing problem. Neither had strong characterization, and both of their plots were completely centered around a very Deus Ex Machina sort of plot device.

I'm also not seeing how CC had loftier goals than CT. XG? Sure. Religious plot with all sorts of serious moments and attempts to, uh, dissertate on the human psyche or whatever. CT was just a relatively light-hearted romp through various time periods, and CC was just a relatively light-hearted romp across parallel dimensions.
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Prime Mover
Posts: 2792


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2007, 11:37:24 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
CT was just a relatively light-hearted romp through various time periods, and CC was just a relatively light-hearted romp across parallel dimensions.


Okay, I really fail to see how CCs presentation was that of a light-hearted romp. On the contrary, it seemed like one of the most downer, bleakest games I've ever played. In many ways, I really got a lot of flashbacks from XG. It really felt like XG set in the CT universe to me. I don't think many would call it a "light-hearted romp" when characters are dieing every which way, and the interchanges attempt to pull at your soul every goddamn minute (this started really pissing me off).

CT = All about the character interaction, plot was very simple, and very secondary. There was a "nudge nudge, wink wink" factor about a lot of the plot too, as if it was really meant to be toung and cheak.

CC = All about the complex plot, characters took a total backseat. Plot loaded with rtheological and philosophical meanderings. The plot reminded me of a child who comes up to you and says, "look at how profound I am!"

XG = plot primary, characters secondary, but at least a little more attention to characters, and a plot that had a little more of something to say. Still ponderous and pretentious as all hell, but a little closer to actually SAYING SOMETHING. Still... pissed me off.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8461


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2007, 02:03:08 PM »

Chrono Cross was trying to be philosophical and say something? Theological wut? I mean that thing about the mainland invading and screwing up the dragon god worship comes up but that's not really theological...
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Prime Mover
Posts: 2792


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2007, 02:50:43 PM »

Did you miss half the game or something? I mean, the whole bit about FATE, KID, and Schala was pretty theological in nature... Hell, the game ends with the reincarnation of one of the main characters walking through modern-day New York (or was it Tokyo?). I wanted to put my foot through the TV with that scene. I sorta wish I'd beaten Lavos the wrong way, just so I didn't have to witness that pretentious piece of crap.

I just feel like the game had no substance. I love a good romp... but if thats what the CC creators had in mind, they were WAY off the mark, because it mostly felt like they were stabbing me in the eye with bullshit "what if" situations with time travel, reincarnation, and other things. I would have LOVED to ignore it and just have my romp, but they wouldn't leave it alone, and they didn't give me any characters or dialog to attatch myself to to be able to have my romp either.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8461


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2007, 07:43:23 PM »

I don't really see anything theological about FATE, Kid, or Schala, and that future city was probably supposed to just be some... present-dayish city in the 1999 that wasn't Lavos'd. Also, I don't think that was a reincarnation. It looked like she just got sent there through a time portal after you nuked lavos or something.

Code:

FATE was a giant computer built by Lucca, Kid was Schala's half-clone, and Schala was... glued to Lavos or something, right?


Could you just explain to me what's theological about that? I'm not religious so if it's some big allegory it's totally beyond me.
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Prime Mover
Posts: 2792


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2007, 09:18:53 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
Could you just explain to me what's theological about that? I'm not religious so if it's some big allegory it's totally beyond me.


I don't mean "theological" as in the "Christian" sense (hell, I'm not religious either) but in the spiritual philosophy sense. The term gets used for a wide range of things, I guess I should be more specific:

"new-agee bullshit spiritualism"

I just feel like the creators were trying to be profound, when they simply came out laughably cheesy and sophomoric. There's a word for this, it's called "pretentious."

Look, there's a hell of a lot of cheesy bullshit philosophy in jRPGs. It's hard not to find one that doesn't. And really, its no that bad. But a lot of it plays second or third fiddle to the overall dialog, characters, and gameplay, of which there's a lot more concentration on. CC felt like it was ALL about the story mechanics, which I just found convoluted, pretentious, and dingy.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8461


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2007, 09:50:43 PM »

I still have no idea what you're refering to as spiritual, here.

Also, what, the entire FATE thing is just a repeat of the robo plot arc in CT where he goes up against Mother Brain -- I mean, I'm pretter sure that Mother Brain and FATE are the exact same entities. If you're calling BS philosophy in CC, you might as well call it in CT too ;)
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Sapphire_Fate
Posts: 222

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2007, 08:40:41 PM »

Mother Brain and FATE are not the same. FATE is a computer built by Chronopolis to maintain the flow of time, erasing paradoxes such as Serge's life/death and the dimensional split. It is true that FATE was modelled after Mother Brain, but their functions in time are not the same whatsoever. It also does not help your argument that Robo is apart of FATE, as well.

Honestly, CT and CC have some of the most complex plots in videogame history. I don't see how they're not "ambitious", or "don't say very much." There is much more beneath the surface, similar to XG. Hell, go to Chrono Compendium before you even try to make plot summaries of CT or CC.
Logged
Ashton
Contributing Editor
Posts: 5066


Lawful Asshole

Member
*


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2007, 06:04:59 AM »

CC was not theological by nature. The entire storyline was meant to explore complicated paradoxes within time and space. None of it was devoted to the human psyche or anything; most of the character's goals and personalities are clear and not very deep. What CC set out to do was throw these characters in the midst of a storyline that attempted to dissect the complex nature of parallel dimensions and timestreams. FATE, Motherbrain, harle, Kid, the dragons, etc. were ALL plot devices within this temporal anomaly.

CC had nothing to do with human nature. Its purpose was to explore potential complications and backlashes of messing with space and time, and in that respect it succeeded. If you think that CC's plot had anything to do with spiritual nature or philosophy, then you missed the point of the game's story completely.
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!