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RPGFan Community Quiz!
Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Best RPG based on writing quality, alone...  (Read 8021 times)
Merkava
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« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2007, 10:06:03 AM »

Fine. Xenogears may have some flaws, but that stems from ambition not quite hitting the mark perfectly. I don't care. I would much rather have writing like Xenogears, that does take risks but stumbles, than writing like Rogue Galaxy, which takes no risks and adheres to standard anime conventions. The former, I felt, was much more satisfying, even with its flaws.

The reason I said Xenogears was not because it creates round, dynamic characters or explodes with Tony Kushner-esque moments of poetry. I mentioned Xenogears because during my multiple play-throughs of the game, I became completely wrapped-up in the story and in the characters, even through the heaps of dialogue. Every tiny hint I'm given or any massive scene of realization that takes place, I desired. I was then left wanting more. I was never frustrated; I was completely engaged.

I feel as if the elements of an RPG, the way it is played, for example, prevent the application of a script on the level of a great novel. You don't have to extend the time it takes to read a novel. In fact, less is more if you want the best effect. With RPG's, the player expects more for their money. So, frowned upon writing devices like intentionally holding back information are implemented to increase length and drag the player along.  I've come to terms with this, so it doesn't bother me. In fact, it works.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2007, 10:09:50 PM »

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What CC set out to do was throw these characters in the midst of a storyline that attempted to dissect the complex nature of parallel dimensions and timestreams.


Basically, what CT did. Well, replace parallel dimensions with cause-and-effect (time travel mostly being a vehicle/macguffin(?) to the cause-and-effect thingy).

Also, I get the feeling that a massive part of the issues with XG's writing were really, really in the translation.

And in all honesty, I actually LIKED the second disc, with the chair sitting bits and the compressed story telling. It was very surreal and made the storyline actually feel like it was taking place over some period of time. Sort of like in Saga frontier 2 how gustave's story bits between wil's action bits got rid of the "Gee, why does this game feel like the story only took place over the course of a week?" syndrome.
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Sapphire_Fate
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« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2007, 02:04:13 PM »

Uh, CC and CT's motives are completely different. The nature of parallel dimensions and their timestreams is not at all the same as CT's hopscotch around time periods.

Let me break it down: CT took place in one dimension, CC's "Another World." All of the time-travelling was done in one dimension.

Then, when Serge lived instead of died, the dimensions split because of the resulting paradox. In one world, he was alive("Another World"), in the other he was dead("Home World"). Also, key in the allusions to the Many Worlds Theorem make up a lot of CC's plot.

You really only scratched the surface when you played CC, didn't you?
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Sapphire_Fate
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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2007, 02:23:55 PM »

While we're at it: The ending in CC where Schala visits modern-day Tokyo is actually explained in her writing, that she would search for Serge in any time, any dimension. She was sent to the Darkness Beyond Time for a reason, not just to merge with Lavos but also the power to extend her reach across dimensions to help Serge.

The Tokyo setting can either be our dimension(which is different from the Chronoverse's), or the Chrono universe only later in time, considering their rampant leaps in technology.

So, that shouldn't be a plot point of CC's that is to be criticized, whomever brought it up.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2007, 04:10:12 PM »

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You really only scratched the surface when you played CC, didn't you?


Apparently not. Then again, you misunderstood what I said. I said that CT and CC had the same story-centric, as opposed to character focused, storylines, except with different central plot devices.

I thought the Tokyo place was some version of Chronopolis that wasn't all crappy and broken.
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Sapphire_Fate
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« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2007, 08:38:29 PM »

The Tokyo place in the ending has nothing to do with Chronopolis in any way, shape, or form.
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Tria
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« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2007, 08:56:29 PM »

I always found the Xenosaga (including Gears) and tri-Ace games to have the best writing in them.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2007, 08:59:49 PM »

I didn't see it mentioned here, and maybe it really isn't as good as I think,but I always thought the first Parasite Eve had a well written story.
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« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2007, 09:44:56 AM »

Though I'm not much of an SRPG fan, I just realized that the Tactics Ogre games are always ambitious about their writing.  I remember playing the first Tactics Ogre and being impressed by the maturity of the writing, and this was a time when "mature" gaming with "mature" writing/storylines was still near nonexistent.

It also did the branching storyline thing really well.  

Difficulty was merciless though, so I GameSharked that thing.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2007, 01:09:07 PM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"
Though I'm not much of an SRPG fan, I just realized that the Tactics Ogre games are always ambitious about their writing.  I remember playing the first Tactics Ogre and being impressed by the maturity of the writing, and this was a time when "mature" gaming with "mature" writing/storylines was still near nonexistent.

It also did the branching storyline thing really well.  

Difficulty was merciless though, so I GameSharked that thing.


Yeah. I played Tactics Ogre when I was maybe, 14 or 15. Very good game with an excellent story. Multiple endings too.

Difficulty I can agree on somewhat. Story battles, I don't think the enemies level up with you, so you can just power level and beat them. Although they could still be tough. Random battles were a lot tougher since the enemies were usually the same level as you.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2007, 01:19:23 AM »

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and this was a time when "mature" gaming with "mature" writing/storylines was still near nonexistent.


There'd been plenty of mature games (which were RPGs, I mean) in the PC market at that point, though. Unless the first Tactic Ogre was earlier than 95? My sources are lacking :P
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Dincrest
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« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2007, 08:01:47 AM »

MeshGearFox- To clarify, I meant with regards to console gaming.  As you said, PC gaming's had mature games with mature storylines well before consoles did.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2007, 03:49:54 PM »

What do you mean by "mature", though?

Mature as in, actually thoughtful, meaningful content?

Or Mature as in that section of the video rental place that's covered by a caurtain?

Because the two are, in many cases, mutually exclusive. And from what I've seen, PC games are mostly full of the latter.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2007, 04:16:25 PM »

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As you said, PC gaming's had mature games with mature storylines well before consoles did.


Comparatively though, PC RPG gaming's been more stably situated longer though, so it's sort of a moot point anyway and I was just being silly in bringing it up :P You have to consider that PC RPGs (or adventure games, maybe. Rogue and Adventure both started existing in the late 70s) got their start in 78, whereas console games took till about 86 to get rolling.

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Because the two are, in many cases, mutually exclusive. And from what I've seen, PC games are mostly full of the latter.


I mean mature, thoughfull content. Not x-rated stuff. I mean, sure, you find X-Rated stuff in a lot of PC games, especially if, for some BIZARRE reason, you feeling like plumbing the depths of late-mid nineties "multimedia adventures," then... yeah.

I'm talking more about mid-early nineties RPGs, though. Things like Ultima 6 and 7, or Albion, or Krondor. Star Control 2, despite the humor and not really being an RPG, also has a lot of depth and maturity in its writing. Back in the 80s, I'd say that something like Wasteland would also have quite solid and mature writing. Maybe Ultima 5. I haven't played that lately, so that might not have had much in the writing department ;) Dragon Wars to an extent, or somet of the old goldbox games.

Then more recent games too -- Planescape Torment, for instance, or the first Fallout. I think you could also make a case for Baldur's Gate 2, or the Gothics, or parts of Morrowind.
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« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2007, 05:37:04 PM »

To address you Prime Mover, I refer to mature is what Fox said in the post above me.  

I agree there is a difference between Fear Effect 2 and BMX XXX, both of which had mature ratings but while the former was a truly artful title with thoughtful content and storytelling, the latter was just raunch for the sake of being raunchy.  

And since people asked, Tactics Ogre was originally released on Super Famicom in 1995, Japanese Playstation in 1997, and US Playstation in 1998.  I still think it had a darn well written storyline.
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