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Author Topic: FFXII what do you think about it?  (Read 7725 times)
Prime Mover
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2007, 09:03:08 PM »

All in all, I liked FF12, but it lacked something... soul. Even though I enjoyed it, it was largely unable to crawl out of its polygon-based, virtual shell, and become something more than "just a game". The story was easily the most sophisticated (and I don't just mean complex) in the series, but to do so, they did away with all the dramatic elements that made the series very special. In the end, it felt like a Suikoden game... a game where there were absolutely no moments where you wanted to gauge out your eyes at cheesy romantic dialog (note, I don't mean romantic in the sense of a love story, but in the broader deffintion), but at the same time, never really moved you (except for a few parts in Suiko V).

I could tell that they were purposefully, desperate to get away from cheesy RPG cliches, and I very much applaud them for that. But in doing so, they played it a bit too safe, and a bit too far from the heart. The fact is, I believe that RPGs are strongest as a Romantic genre... they're huge epic works that explore the inner workings of the human spirit in a very obvious, 19th century sorta way. you don't need to escape that aspect in order to keep a game from being sickly-sweet and sappy, you just need to make it believable within the context of the characters and game world. FF12 took the easy way out, instead of continuing to explore the human element, while doing the extremely hard task of also avoiding mellodramatic sap, they just did away with much of the human element alltogether.

In the end, I prefer it to FFX because FFXs romanticism was so terribly cheep and mellodramatic, that it spoiled the game for me... FF12 I was able to play without getting angry or feeling insulted... but it didn't make me feel much of anything else either. FF6, FF8, and FF9 remain the height of the series, for me, once again, because I feel they had the best ballance of drama with some semblence of reality. But a applaud their decision to back off of the drama with FF12, in order to re-evaluate the basics of the genre.

I'm hoping that FF12 was the first step in a two-stage project to make a better game: step 1) remove the cheesy mellodrama, step 2) fill the hole with GOOD drama. Here's hoping that FF13 is that step 2.

BTW: One of my friends said something soon after I played it that made a lot of sense, "Twilight Princess had the soul that FF12 lacked". I totally agree with him. Zelda was original a series that wasn't about drama, and primarilly the story was an excuse for gameplay. TP offered something more, and I actually really felt for a lot of the characters (mostly NPCs). Final Fantasy, a series drenched in drama and soul, suddenly had a story that was an excuse for gameplay... as if the two had switched.
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2007, 10:15:49 PM »

I didn't like it whatsoever. Felt too automated, the story was weak, the characters were one-dimensional, and the music was dull.

I also thought the battle system was too much like an MMO. If I were to compare it to an MMO battle system, I'd say Granado Espada's is better. It has the same idea as FF12 but includes fun.
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AJR
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2007, 10:29:35 PM »

I loved the gameplay of FF12, and I was more than happy to venture off mid game and do a few random hunts. But I do wish the game had more character development. I'd love the game a lot more if the characters were more fleshed out.
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2007, 06:02:14 AM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
All in all, I liked FF12, but it lacked something... soul......


I didn't want to quote the entire post, but I felt you got it pretty much spot on. I am currently only up to Draklor so I can't form a full opinion just yet but Vaan must be the least fleshed out main character in an FF ever (at least in the more recent games).

However what I will say is that I do love the game, the story although lacking the drama is a lot more high brow than we're used to and the dialogue is simply wonderful, truly poetic in some parts.

Oh and the moogles in FFXII are amazing :D

As for the License Board system, I can see what they've gone for with it. It does alow for the greatest customisation but the trade off is that you get less of a return in terms of soul for the character.

The gameplay (especially the marks) and the dialogue alone are enough to make me want to continue on though.
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2007, 10:11:42 AM »

In FF12, the "main" protagonists Vaan and Penelo hardly get developed at all.  The most developed characters in FF12 were Balthier, Ashe, and Basch, I thought.  I believe part of the impetus behind Revenant Wings is to put the focus back on them and develop them more.
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2007, 11:41:16 AM »

As a fan of the game, I just kinda eyeroll at most of the complaints. For me, the game was a giant improvement on the FF franchise, and I do feel it was very much an FF of classic design. I also feel that the battle system was far less annoying than anything else on the PSX or PS2, largely because it eliminated random encounters. If I want to cruise through the easy bitches, I can, and still get a few extra exp while Balthier and Fran pop off a few shots behind me.
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Takezo
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2007, 02:02:11 PM »

Pretty boring game. I'm not going to bother finishing it because I don't have that wierd gamer mentality that allows me to slug through 100 hours of crap for a lame payoff. Balthier was great though. The game is just too big for its story.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2007, 04:05:16 PM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"
Stuff

I wouldn't say that Balthier or Basch really developed any more than anyone else, they maybe have just been more interesting and gotten more screen time. In fact, I think Balthier's persona is completely incapable of developement at that point in his life. He was wise and cocky in the beginning, and he was wise and cocky at the end. He allowed more of himself to be exposed to the other characters once he got to know them, and the time came for him to speak up, but all in all, he really didn't develope at all. I really like him because he's the first RPG character I've ever seen who is both cocky and wise at the same time... usually those two attributes tend to counter each-other, and are found in different characters. Not only that, but he's cocky in his wisdom, which I found very fun. I think that's why he's so universally likable as a character.

I think Vaan and Ashe still developed the most out of all the characters... if just a tiny bit. Vaan came to terms with his "rogue" side, and how immature it was ("I wanna be a sky pirate!") and Asche became a little more open and less rash. Though, the changes were fairly minor, they developed a little more than the others, who were pretty confident in who they were from the start.

I think we need to separate the difference between character developement and character portrayal. FF12 had fairly decent character portrayal... you got a good sense of who everyone was, but none of them particularly developed throughout the game. That's not neccessarilly a bad thing, as how many earth-shattering changes are going to take place in someone's life over a, what, 6 month time span?

Quote from: "Macca"
Stuff

I really liked the license board... but, I think it could have been a lot smaller with a lot larger goals. Something in which you strive for a group of related skills and stats, but by doing so, you have to move farther away from others. I think they're on the right track, but they should have just grouped alot of the smaller priced ones together, and maybe made all of the squares 100 points. It would take a total revision, and basically a new system, so we'll see what they do next.
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2007, 05:11:56 PM »

Her name is Ashe goddamnit.
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Esper_Crusader
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2007, 05:38:04 PM »

I think it's a great game and I really enjoy it but for 2 things: First, I find that the gaps between story segments are too far apart. There could be a 2 or 3 minute cutscene/story sequence, then a few hours travel time or grinding. I found myself forgetting what happened or what was going on from time to time. Secondly, the summons are next to useless:P
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2007, 05:41:21 PM »

I agree, the summons were so incredibly worthless that even when I thought, "should I try it out?" I immediately thought to myself, "no... that would be a waste of time and entirely too stupid."
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2007, 02:54:16 AM »

I agree with the whole 'this doesn't feel like an FF' notions myself. There's several things, from the major to the minor, that make it feel completely different from, well, the entire series except perhaps for XI really. Even with the obvious system changes (That's always a part of FF anyway), stuff like Hitoshi Sakimoto composing just make it feel very different. All the FFs have been distinctive, but this seems to lack the vibe that I got even from FFVIII ultimately.
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2007, 04:44:48 AM »

FFXII didn't feel like FF to me either. I don't mean that in a bad way -- at least partially because i have no idea what ff feels like, given that i never grew up with that series and started with VII, which was arguablly the point where the series lost some of its FFishness (Or probably VI, really. V to VI had a really noticable stylistic shift, I'd say).
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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2007, 11:00:31 AM »

What is FF supposed to "feel" like anyway? The series has the reputation of being probably one of the biggest series to make huge changes with each new installment in the industry.
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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2007, 11:14:45 AM »

I'm more or less with Ash on this one. I see no difference in FFXII's feel from say, FFIV or VI. It IS different from the pop-culture bullshit they threw at us with X and X-2, and the more modern takes in VII and VIII, but not a far jump from the classic tropes of IX.
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