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Author Topic: Etrian Odyssey  (Read 16463 times)
TSG
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« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2007, 04:33:08 AM »

Quote from: "Willy Elektrix"
Quote from: "KeeperX"
Quote from: "TSG"
2nd edition D+D was horribly uncustomizable. Base stats, and that was it. So much for Eye of the Beholder.

Meanwhile, would you like your Etrian Odyssey protector to be a Defence Buffer? A Backup Healer? How about a Parry Build? Or an Elemental Defender.


I dunno, you look at kits and the like, and it becomes much more customizable.  It's not D20 D&D, but it's more customizable than, say, (not Advanced) D&D.


Yeah, I'll agree with KeeperX on this one. You've got a handful of base classes, a ton of "kits" (basically, subclasses under each base class), and few races to choose from (and if you are utilizing the Complete Book of humanoids, there are many more races). Then, you get to select your weapon and non-weapon proficiencies (much like skills). In the end there is a good bit of customizing to do. Most video games don't have the level of customization that AD&D has.

On a different subject, I made it dungeon level 15 in Etrian Odyssey today. How far is everyone else?


While true - see Baldur's Gate 2 for a prime example - a) the original comment was about Eye of the Beholder, which was very lacking, and b) the act of selecting a kit still locks you into an ability path. Unless you get to really high-up-there levels and start picking epic abilities, you have at level 1 selected what will happen for the next 20 levels. Strictly speaking, this isn't 'customization' - it's 'selection'.

I'm currently pottering around B11F / B12F, having rested my guys twice (yes, twice: I like to play with different builds).

Landsknecht is currently a sword user. Hell Cry and Allslash ahoy. Axes are nice, sure, but I do plenty of damage with swords too and Allslash allows for the clearing of nasty random battles in an instant.

Survivalist currently has 10 Mine, Chop, and Take, and that's it. Lololol quest-only character.

Protector was a tough choice. Until I got Immunize it was easy: Defender, Fortify, Provoke. 10 damage from FOEs, gogogo. With the onset of Immunize to take me past the three-buff limit, I've had to drop Fortify, and am using it only for Smite requirements - Even then, Provoke 10's defence boost and taunt is not inconsequential, so I can relatively easily lock down an FOE. I expect I'll pay for not taking the elemental defenders at some point.

Dark Hunter's easy. Take the three bind moves and Ecstacy. Sorted. Another top-notch way to lock down FOEs.

The Medic is kind of tricky: points scattered all over the place in reqs. 3 points in Cure for Salve, 3 points in Salve for... Immunize, was it? 3 points in Cure 2 for Salve 2. 10 points in Cure 3 is a nobrainer, ditto Salve 2 and Immunize.

The Elementalist has 7 Fire Up, 3 Fire, 10 Flame, 10 Inferno, 10 TP Up. Now that that's done we'll do exactly the same on Ice.

The Ronin has a ton of neat stuff. As it is I'm looking at getting almost entirely the Overhead stance and passive boosts.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2007, 11:44:15 AM »

Quote from: "TSG"
Quote from: "Willy Elektrix"
Yeah, I'll agree with KeeperX on this one. You've got a handful of base classes, a ton of "kits" (basically, subclasses under each base class), and few races to choose from (and if you are utilizing the Complete Book of humanoids, there are many more races). Then, you get to select your weapon and non-weapon proficiencies (much like skills). In the end there is a good bit of customizing to do. Most video games don't have the level of customization that AD&D has.

On a different subject, I made it dungeon level 15 in Etrian Odyssey today. How far is everyone else?


While true - see Baldur's Gate 2 for a prime example - a) the original comment was about Eye of the Beholder, which was very lacking, and b) the act of selecting a kit still locks you into an ability path. Unless you get to really high-up-there levels and start picking epic abilities, you have at level 1 selected what will happen for the next 20 levels. Strictly speaking, this isn't 'customization' - it's 'selection'.


I understand what you mean, but I consider both to be customization, just different styles of it. And, honestly, I prefer "selection" to "customization" for the most part. I like playing specific characters that have specific roles and clear advantages/disadvantages right from the start.

Also, Your EO party sounds pretty dope, it seems pretty rounded out and versatile. Mine isn't all that powerful but I've got a few tricks for boss encounters, so we get business done.

I've got a Paladin who has maxed Cure 2 and some maxed Def Up skills. Then I've got a Dark Hunter with maxed Attack Up and maxed Gag and Cuffs, plus a few other things. Then I have a Survivalist who I use as a fighter with maxed Preemptive Strike bonus and Agility Up plus maxed Multi-Arrow.

In the back row I've got a Bard with maxed Recovery, Bravery, and Shelter and soon to be maxed Divinity (exp bonus, YES!). Then I've got a Alchemist with maxed Poison (which is actually good in this game) and mostly maxed Ice abilities.
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TSG
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« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2007, 05:50:52 PM »

Hmm. I deliberately left Cure 2 on the Protector alone because of the sheer advantage of Cure 3. When it comes down to it, a maxed Cure 3 costs the same MP as a level 1 Cure 2 and is guaranteed to heal all of a character's HP. It's infinitely the biggest advantage a medic has.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2007, 07:09:11 PM »

Quote from: "TSG"
Hmm. I deliberately left Cure 2 on the Protector alone because of the sheer advantage of Cure 3. When it comes down to it, a maxed Cure 3 costs the same MP as a level 1 Cure 2 and is guaranteed to heal all of a character's HP. It's infinitely the biggest advantage a medic has.


Yeah, I have no doubt, but I wanted to be cool and not put a medic in my party. Really, it's kind of a thing of mine - I like beating games without using healer classes. It proves my RPG balls. I guess. And you're right, even maxed out Cure 2 isn't even a full heal for one character.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2007, 12:40:32 PM »

Quote from: "Willy Elektrix"
Quote from: "TSG"
Hmm. I deliberately left Cure 2 on the Protector alone because of the sheer advantage of Cure 3. When it comes down to it, a maxed Cure 3 costs the same MP as a level 1 Cure 2 and is guaranteed to heal all of a character's HP. It's infinitely the biggest advantage a medic has.


Yeah, I have no doubt, but I wanted to be cool and not put a medic in my party. Really, it's kind of a thing of mine - I like beating games without using healer classes. It proves my RPG balls. I guess. And you're right, even maxed out Cure 2 isn't even a full heal for one character.


I don't have a medic in my party right now either. I think it's more fun this way, but I think I'll need him back later on in the game.

It's annoying not having a Medic, because you have to waste character turns to use heal items. Thankfully my sword Dark Hunter has Drain. Your characters will be dying a lot more without a Medic in your party, that's for sure. Multi hit attacks are a pain when you don't have an item that heals all of your party. >_<
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2007, 05:09:09 PM »

Quote from: "Fadedsun"
It's annoying not having a Medic, because you have to waste character turns to use heal items. Thankfully my sword Dark Hunter has Drain. Your characters will be dying a lot more without a Medic in your party, that's for sure. Multi hit attacks are a pain when you don't have an item that heals all of your party. >_<


The way I handle multi-hit attacks is just to gag or cuff the enemy. One or the other will typically disable a boss's multi-hit move. Also, I use the bard's shelter constantly to keep DEF up.

Fuck those pansy medics. Although, you're right, probably the later bosses will be a bitch without one.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2007, 06:08:56 PM »

Yeah, I always use Cuff or Gag with my whip DH. But they're only at level 4 right now, so the chance of it binding aren't too high at the moment. It usually takes a couple turns. Sometimes it won't work at all. =/ It's good that it does more damage than normal attacks though, so if it doesn't bind, atleast I'm a step closer to not dying.

Do you know what the purpose of binding legs is?
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2007, 10:09:21 AM »

Quote from: "Fadedsun"
Do you know what the purpose of binding legs is?


Maybe certain enemy types perform special attacks with their legs? They certainly never run away, that's for sure.
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« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2007, 10:04:50 AM »

Moves don't always use Arms. Spells or gaze attacks tend to use Head. Moves such as Charge or Kick or Rush use legs. Bind appropriately.
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« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2007, 05:57:46 PM »

I had to quit this game today. I got down to level 25 and then, suddenly, 4 out of my 5 members stopped gaining experience points. Then I realized that this game has a level cap at level 70. I really liked the classes my members were so I didn't want to restart them on a new class, and sending them back to level 1 for a nominal stat boost seemed pretty silly. So, I'm pretty bummed. I really want to get to the last stratum but without leveling up, what's the god damn point?

Oh well, D&D Tactics comes out soon and this game was going to get put away soon enough anyway.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2007, 06:08:10 PM »

Quote from: "Willy Elektrix"
I had to quit this game today. I got down to level 25 and then, suddenly, 4 out of my 5 members stopped gaining experience points. Then I realized that this game has a level cap at level 70. I really liked the classes my members were so I didn't want to restart them on a new class, and sending them back to level 1 for a nominal stat boost seemed pretty silly. So, I'm pretty bummed. I really want to get to the last stratum but without leveling up, what's the god damn point?

Oh well, D&D Tactics comes out soon and this game was going to get put away soon enough anyway.


Why don't you just rest your characters? They only lose 10 levels and you get to reallocated all those points, plus 8 extra if you rest at 70. Any higher levels, I think, would make the game less balanced. The cap is 70 for a reason.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2007, 12:36:33 AM »

Quote from: "Fadedsun"
Quote from: "Willy Elektrix"
I had to quit this game today. I got down to level 25 and then, suddenly, 4 out of my 5 members stopped gaining experience points. Then I realized that this game has a level cap at level 70. I really liked the classes my members were so I didn't want to restart them on a new class, and sending them back to level 1 for a nominal stat boost seemed pretty silly. So, I'm pretty bummed. I really want to get to the last stratum but without leveling up, what's the god damn point?

Oh well, D&D Tactics comes out soon and this game was going to get put away soon enough anyway.


Why don't you just rest your characters? They only lose 10 levels and you get to reallocated all those points, plus 8 extra if you rest at 70. Any higher levels, I think, would make the game less balanced. The cap is 70 for a reason.


Because I don't want to continuously regain the same 10 levels over and over again and I especially don't want to be frozen on the same floor I'm on while I regain enough experience to continue onward. Also, (surprisingly) the game is still hard at level 70. I'm hardly blowing through the floors like you might expect. I think you are meant to have restarted your characters (thus accumulating bonus points) several times. Seems like a very strange way to handle it though. Why wouldn't they just have more levels instead? Sheesh.
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« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2007, 11:29:47 PM »

I have been stuck on the 20th floor for many weeks and I am level 51 or so for my party and I don't think I will reset but will keep grinding till I beat whatever monster I need to.
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« Reply #88 on: August 13, 2007, 07:19:12 AM »

Quote from: "Willy Elektrix"
Quote from: "Fadedsun"
Quote from: "Willy Elektrix"
I had to quit this game today. I got down to level 25 and then, suddenly, 4 out of my 5 members stopped gaining experience points. Then I realized that this game has a level cap at level 70. I really liked the classes my members were so I didn't want to restart them on a new class, and sending them back to level 1 for a nominal stat boost seemed pretty silly. So, I'm pretty bummed. I really want to get to the last stratum but without leveling up, what's the god damn point?

Oh well, D&D Tactics comes out soon and this game was going to get put away soon enough anyway.


Why don't you just rest your characters? They only lose 10 levels and you get to reallocated all those points, plus 8 extra if you rest at 70. Any higher levels, I think, would make the game less balanced. The cap is 70 for a reason.


Because I don't want to continuously regain the same 10 levels over and over again and I especially don't want to be frozen on the same floor I'm on while I regain enough experience to continue onward. Also, (surprisingly) the game is still hard at level 70. I'm hardly blowing through the floors like you might expect. I think you are meant to have restarted your characters (thus accumulating bonus points) several times. Seems like a very strange way to handle it though. Why wouldn't they just have more levels instead? Sheesh.


What characters are you using? And what are your character builds? Depending on your builds, resting might not be such a bad idea. You might not have good enough builds for the floor that you're on.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2007, 10:06:25 PM »

Quote from: "Fadedsun"
What characters are you using? And what are your character builds? Depending on your builds, resting might not be such a bad idea. You might not have good enough builds for the floor that you're on.


My builds seem alright. Dungeon crawling is mostly hard because I don't have a healer. However, bosses pose no problem even remotely. I don't really feel like going into what skills I have. The root of the matter is deeper than that. While I (maybe) could go all the way down to the bottom with my current party, why would I when I don't gain experience for killing monsters. That's part of the fun for me. And conversely, if I did rebuild, why would I want to spend time regaining levels I already lost in order to do them again, but "better" this time.

It's a game play formula that doesn't really appeal to me. Not to diss the game, I just think that the leveling system is too discouraging for me.
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