Lost odyssey

[alonso]

I am really looking forward to this game, aswell as Blue Lagune which has already been published in Japan. I hope that Mistwalker, which was founded by Square-Enix's Hironobu Sakaguchi, the person who invented Final Fantasy and made all stories till XII.

for everyone who is intrested in some oldschool style rpgs.


http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/613/613377p1.html

[Eusis]

Blue Lagune what the... It's Blue Dragon in english. :P

I'm anticipating this. The concept interests me, so I hope it's handled well and is a fun game. LOOKS like it might be a better attempt at appealing to both American and Japanese audiences than Last Remnant too, with one fairly unorthodox hero rather than two archetypes.

[Tria]

If it can change its battle system immensely, or preferably change it to an Action-RPG-esque type game, I'd be much more interested.  

But they said that the battle system of before was just basically a first draft, so my hopes are up.

[Eusis]

I'm kinda tired of the whole "Let's make everything ACTION!" mentality. Brainlessly mashing in the slash button can be just as boring as selecting attack over and over, and both are equally invigorated when they demand more strategy/skill.

[Tria]

I'm kinda tired of the whole "Let's make everything ACTION!" mentality. Brainlessly mashing in the slash button can be just as boring as selecting attack over and over, and both are equally invigorated when they demand more strategy/skill.

I don't think strategic Turn-Based is very invigorating.  It's just boring, and with exception to a very few games these days, just plain outdated.  I'd take a strategic Real-Time game over a strategic Turn-Based game anyday.  In fact, I'd probably take a mindless action RPG over a strategic TBRPG if that action battle system is done right.

I've always liked Real-Time over Turn-Based.  I love both (with exception to a lot of newer Turn-Based games like DQVIII that are more outdated than fun), but I've always found Real-Time to be much more satisfying.  I've felt this way since I played Crystalis when I was only a few years old.  Controlling the character is much, much more fun than telling them what to do.

Plus, with a game that pits you against an enormous army with gorgeous graphics, I'd like to be able to explore the area, and actually control the character myself.

[Eusis]

I made a long post in reply, but that's just getting off track, so fuck it, I'll just use it to make a topic or something, we haven't had this issue dragged up in a long time anyway (not since Kurenai was around?). I did really like DQVIII though and considered it a good example of why using some thought in battle can make it interesting again.

Though I doubt the whole game'll be centered around giant army battles. I think that was just chosen because it made for an awesome looking trailer, but who knows, I might be missing something.

Edit: And also... In case you were thinking I said adding more real strategy to a turn based combat system made it invigorating to play, no. I meant invigorating the system, not invigorating the player. Obviously more often than not you'd be better off with action gameplay if you want something that'll give a rush.

[Sagacious-T]

I've been following this game very closely since seeing the demo and trailer last year.

I don't want the game to be real time, and I think that too many RPGs are taking that path. Its nice to have a old fashioned turn based RPG like Lost Odyssey. Why must EVERY game be real time these days? I say let a game be what the developers want it to be, then let the gamer experience it, instead of letting a game be what the gamer wants it to be.

Its sort of like how Square Enix used to be, very creative and it let the gamer experience the developers vision more-so.

They do plan to make the battle system different of course. Sakaguchi has mentioned real time elements to it, not sure if that means ATB or not. He also talked about a "Wall System" in Famitsu, where enemies and allies would form behind one another directly (Warriors in front, magic users in back probably) to defend one another, and there would be some sort of twitch based move you had to do to pierce the enemy defenses.

Plus there's the whole skill system that makes immortal characters different from mortals, and an item-synthesis system (That I hope is fairly deep and lets users create unique equipment).

I'm also very excited about the storyline and music, but I don't want to rant on about that. Here's a song someone recorded of the Lost Odyssey 2006 Trailer, its really nice.

http://media.putfile.com/Lost-Odyssey-Trailer-Theme---Nobuo-Uematsu

[Kos-mos]

I totally agree Thoren and Eusis, why the heck must EVERY SINGLE GAME be real-time these days?!  Especially ones that SHOULD NOT be.  

I'm getting tired of RPGs that clearly should not have real-time ACTION battle systems getting them stuffed into them to appeal to twitch gamers and button mashers who rarely even appreciate the real JRPG aspects of these games.  This idea that since we can do realtime action everything should be realtime action (like crappy western PC RPGs) is ridiculous.

Case in point, Shining Force.  I'm getting sick and tired of Sega whining that Strategy RPGs aren't good enough to make one instead of the button-mashing CRAP-TACULAR slop that they keep shitting out in place of a REAL Shining Force game.  It's certainly got to be possible to make a real Strategy RPG that pushes consoles to their limits, but they're too busy making money off of cheaply made garbage.

[MeshGearFox]

This idea that since we can do realtime action everything should be realtime action (like crappy western PC RPGs)

Very partial list of western PC RPGs which aren't realtime:

ADOM, Akalabeth, Albion, Aleshar: World of Ice, Amberstar, Angband, Arcanum (Turn-based mode. Real time mode isn't really playable, though), Avernum, Avernum 2, Avernum 3, The Bard's Tale, The Bard's Tale 2, The Bard's Tale 3, BAT, BAT 2: The Koshan Conspiracy, Betrayal at Krondor, Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday, Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed, Castle of the Winds, Champions of Krynne, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Dark Queen of Krynn, Darklands (Real time combat; turn based everything else), Deathknights of Krynne, Dragon Wars, Fallout, Fallout 2, Gateway to the Savage Frontier, Genforge, Genforge 2, Genforge 3, Genforge 4, Jagged Alliance 2,
Lords of Midnight, Lords of Midnight 2: Doomdark's Revenge
Megatraveller 1: The Zhodani Conspiracy, MegaTraveller 2: Quest for The Ancients
Might and Magic, Might and Magic 2, Might and Magic 3, Might and Magic 4, Might and Magic 5, Might and Magic 6 and 7 have the option to be played in real-time, but this mode isn't even remotely playable.
Nethack, Nethergate, Pool of Radiance, Pools of Darkness
Ragnarok, Realms of Arkania: The Blade of Destiny, Realms of, Arkania: Startrail, Realms of Arkania: Shadows Over Riva
Reaping the Dungeon, Secret of the Silver Blades
Space Rangers 2 (Though, it has an arcade mini-game thing, and some optional RTS mini-game. Primary game is turn-based, completely)
The Spirit Engine, Treasures of the Savage Frontier, Ultima 1, Ultima 3, Ultima 4, Ultima 5, Ultima 6, Ultima: The Savage Empire, Ultima: Martian Dreams, The UnReal World, Wasteland
Whale's Voyage (I think. This might actually be phased real-time)
Wizardry, Wizardry 2, Wizardry 3, Wizardry 4, Wizardry 5, Wizardry 6, Wizardry 7, Wizardry 8*

I can think of a few more that are real-time but not even remotely twitched based -- Eye of the Beholder, Alternate Reality, Bioware's various Infinity Engine games (which mostly consist of pausing, giving orders, and letting it run for a bit. Practically turn-based in execution), Dungeon Hack. Also, I mostly constucted this based on whatever I had Dosbox configs for and whatever I could find on home of the underdogs. This would explain why I don't have as many recent games listed, although I'm quite sure they still make turn-based PC RPGs.  

Anyway, more abstract real-time battle systems like ATB are a purely JRPG invention. So are things like having to press X/O/Triangle when the blow actually connects with the enemy, battle wheels (Shadow Hearts, usaga, something else I'm forgetting), whatever it is FFXII does.

Anyway, there are a few PC action-RPGs that are more similar to something like Secret of Mana or Zelda. Gothic, despite being stat heavy and having large conversation trees, reminds me of Ocarina of Time a little.

While there are quite a few lite action-RPGs for the PC, like Diablo or Nox, most aren't. Even then, I'd say the biggest actionRPG section of... PC RPGs would be stuff like Deus Ex, System Shock 2, or Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. Stuff where it's, uh... first-person shooter interface/combat, with heavy RPG elements. Deus Ex and VtMB both have very complex character interaction and dialogues and things, and all three of the previously mentioned have very detailed character growth/creation.

* About the list. I don't care that much, honestly. But saying that all PC RPGs is a blanket statement and immensely wrong. It's the same as saying that all console RPGs are shallow and have stupid anime plotlines. Thta's not true either.

[Kos-mos]

Yeah I wrote my post/rant rather quickly and did over-exaggerate my point with being way too general with a ridiculously short inaccurate aside() about all Western RPGs being realtime, there are some that aren't and a lot of older PC RPGs where you had a menu with pictures of your party and their stats is closer to the turn based style I grew to like, which is why I used to actually play some pc games though I've always been more of a console gamer and Square's NES/SNES efforts defining my personal preferences of RPGs during my impressionable gaming days lol.

"I'd say the biggest actionRPG section of... PC RPGs would be stuff like Deus Ex, System Shock 2, or Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. Stuff where it's, uh... first-person shooter interface/combat, with heavy RPG elements. Deus Ex and VtMB both have very complex character interaction and dialogues and things, and all three of the previously mentioned have very detailed character growth/creation. "

They are also one of the most "visible" RPG-genres that separate gamers rpg preferences (other than the Diablo-style top-down "action rpg" which to me are definitely more realtime action than my classification of rpg no matter how much freedom you have in creating or growing your character).  And while several of these FPS RPGs have extremely in-depth character creation/growth systems, in most cases even more in depth than JRPGs they are far from my personal RPG preferences with both Traditional JRPGs/S-RPGS and 3rd person Action-RPGs in front of them.

I suppose as has been said before the variation in the RPG genre makes it hard to specify one's preferences without using specific games to illustrate what you like and dislike.  That said, my original point is still valid, a lot of games that could have FF/Grandia style combat are getting realtime or hybrid systems so I'm disappointed when I hear complaints when we finally get some new titles using my favorite style of RPG combat.

[MeshGearFox]

That said, my original point is still valid, a lot of games that could have FF/Grandia style combat are getting realtime or hybrid systems so I'm disappointed

FF/Grandia style combat fits into realtime/hybrid. I have no idea what you're getting at.

[Ashtrot]

I'm kinda tired of the whole "Let's make everything ACTION!" mentality. Brainlessly mashing in the slash button can be just as boring as selecting attack over and over, and both are equally invigorated when they demand more strategy/skill.

I don't think strategic Turn-Based is very invigorating.  It's just boring, and with exception to a very few games these days, just plain outdated.  I'd take a strategic Real-Time game over a strategic Turn-Based game anyday.  In fact, I'd probably take a mindless action RPG over a strategic TBRPG if that action battle system is done right.

After Dawn of Mana, fuck action RPGs.

[Kos-mos]

That said, my original point is still valid, a lot of games that could have FF/Grandia style combat are getting realtime or hybrid systems so I'm disappointed

FF/Grandia style combat fits into realtime/hybrid. I have no idea what you're getting at.

Despite Grandia's battles "playing out" in realtime, Grandia's battle system is definitely not a realtime one as far as battle control is concerned (like FFXII is).  You control the battle in fully turn based fashion.  You don't have the choice of whether or not to set overall strategies like in a realtime battle system where you can give broad orders to party members you don't directly control, every time a character goes you don't set overall strategy you set specifically word-for-word what every single character will do one turn at a time.  Also, you do not directly control one particulary character moving them around on the battlefield like in a  realtime system (Star Ocean, FFXII, .Hack)

[Prime Mover]

Grandia's system is spacially based, but not time based. On the flipside, the ATB system is time based, but not spacially based. In Grandia, all action stops at a com point. There is no "rush" of trying to hit a button before the enemy does so you can carefully plan out your attacks. But the position of your character in relation to the enemy, is very important to when the action will take place... if at all. Of course, this actually began back with the Lunar series, but in a much more basic form, the Grandia series simply being a spiritual sequel to the Lunar series.

Let's face it, though, the ATB system really isn't very time based, though. It most likely, you've planned out your next move while you're waiting for the bar to fill, and then just double tap the action button to pull up the menu the moment it hits. I think the main thing that the ATB system accomplished was that it was completely free of the "everyone gets one action per round" routine, and allowed for some characters to get more attacks in during a battle, than others.

In the end, probably the Grandia battle system is my favorite (though only having played G2 and G3). Unfortunately, G2s stories don't offer quite as much epic proportion and drama that Final Fantasy does, although, at least in G2, the characters were absolutely astounding.

[Sagacious-T]

Gosh, every topic about a turn based RPG turns into a debate nowadays. Why cant we just accept what the games will offer us. Alot of games do feature realtime elements in turn based gameplay, but a true real-time based RPG would be something like Kingdom Hearts or the Mana series.

I haven't played Grandia, but does the combat system work alot like Eternal Sonata?

Anyways, back to Lost Odyssey, Tonight (26th) There will be new footage and music debuting at Play! A Video Game Symphony, hopefully someone records and uploads it somewhere!