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Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Combat Engines: Menu Based Versus Direct Input  (Read 2754 times)
Dincrest
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2007, 05:44:42 PM »

TANGENT: Fox- in Megami Tensei, all Devil Summoner games had demon loyalty (other MegaTen games do not.)  Devil Summoner and Devil Summoner 2: Soul Hackers both had it and it could be a pain since if your demons weren't loyal, they'd disobey your commands, attack you, all that fun stuff.  

But, yeah, a lot of classic MegaTen features are getting watered down in the new installments.  Nocturne watered down demon dialogue and demon fusion big time.  

As far as RPG battles go, I'm still a turn-based guy at heart too.
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« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2007, 06:56:08 PM »

I'd like to see a game with both. No, really... I mean it. Two completely different battle systems, one in the place of small, "random battles", and one in the place of larger boss battles, where you really need to think.

Bottom line is, turn based battles rarely are interesting when fighting small fry. Sometimes I honestly don't understand why we have them anymore, in 95% of games, there's no skill, no challange, and they're just a waste of time. It's not a question of random battles vs. on-screen ones: with random battles, you just roll your eyes every time the screen suddenly shatters and the battle screen appears; with on-screen battles, you just have this nagging feeling that you SHOULD fight a battle, even if you really don't want to.

I'd say get rid of turn-based battles for short, piddly battles, and just go action/adventure style. For bosses, and strategic battles, go some turnbased varient. It would be nice to have a whole lot of these, so maybe a few every dungeon, any time you have some kind of moderately hard, planned enemies, is go into turn based, but the rest of the time, have a single party member act as "scout" and just take out the little guys in real-time.
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2007, 07:54:11 PM »

Actually, you could probably twist that idea as something of an extension/mis of VP/EB's encounter system. Battles that /are/ genuinely challenging you go into a typical turn based affair. Any that are too weak however can simply take a slash or two with attacks against you being either enemy initiative or all party damage, depending again on how powerful they are compared to you.
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2007, 08:44:06 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
Actually, you could probably twist that idea as something of an extension/mis of VP/EB's encounter system. Battles that /are/ genuinely challenging you go into a typical turn based affair. Any that are too weak however can simply take a slash or two with attacks against you being either enemy initiative or all party damage, depending again on how powerful they are compared to you.


Yeah, but it's still fun to have battles here and there from time to time, I just don't think turn based battles are all that fun when there's no strategy involved. At least with action-based battles, there's some kind of primal satisfaction from actually running around and dispatching your enemy, no matter how weak. While EBs "auto-battle" system was much appreciated, it still doesn't take care of most of the pithy little battles where—yes, you might take a spot of damage, but they were still boring as shit.

I guess I tend to find that dispatching weak enemies is more fun, and a lot faster when you can just walk over and attack it action-style, where-as bosses are much more interesting when there's a lot of strategy behind it.

I'm thinking sort of like Suikoden's tradition of having strategy-based battles for major plot battles, and normal small-party turn-based battles for everything else (I don't count the duels, because those are mostly just for dramatic effect, and are simply rock/paper/scissors in disguise).
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2007, 08:45:20 PM »

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Nocturne watered down demon dialogue and demon fusion big time.


Monster dialogues were long and never made any sense in the first two games. There's not any less guess work and they're not deeper. They just take longer and are more expensive.

and maybe thefusion was toned down, but the individual monsters were more interesting than in the SNES games. And the overall product just felt more strategic. SMT1 and 2 had more features but they never really amounted to much depth to me.

Also, CT's battle system wasn't much different from FFVI's. The battles on the map thing was purely visual and had no affect at all on gameplay, combination attacks were a nice touch, and the whole enemy position thing never seemed to matter much.
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2007, 12:33:59 AM »

i like any battle system where i get to strategically plan my moves,and am able to adapt and adjust on the fly. to give an example i'll use ffx's battle system. lets take a Zu. they are fairly powerful but vulnurable to blind however if you encounter one that happens to be vulurable to blind you are not out of options. you can use lulu's focus ability or use sentinel with auron and buff up his defense with protect and such. however presented with that same situation in ffxii i believe you would just have to bend over and take it.

some of my favorite battle systems from this generation of games include:
Valkyrie Profile 2
Wild Arms 4
Rouge Galaxy(i wish the mechanic of making platforms on bosses was used more)
super robot taisen(OG,OG2,J,W)
(note:i have not played grandia 3)
usually when there is something in battle system i dont like its a limitation placed on players. examples:
FFXII:espers send away 2 of your party members but are not strong enough to justify that. quickenings deplete your mp bar when mp is your lifeblood.

Valkyrie Profile 2:dashing depletes your stamina bar wich you also need to attack
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2007, 02:13:00 PM »

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FFXII:espers send away 2 of your party members but are not strong enough to justify that. quickenings deplete your mp bar when mp is your lifeblood.


That has an advantage, though. It lets you do some amount of damage -- not necessarily anything massive -- while leaving the rest of your party relatively immune.
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