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Author Topic: Phantasy Star III Defies All Logics  (Read 5575 times)
Morwan
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2007, 02:53:25 AM »

Quote from: "Tria"
Uh, where exactly did I say anything like that?

The manner in which you worded your post suggested that you've never played any Genesis RPGs aside from the Phantasy Star series. I assumed that PSIII was your first real experience with the series, since you never mentioned playing the other games in your post. Obviously, I was wrong.

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Wow, glad to see there are some polite people left in this world.

Don't expect people to be polite when you trash their favorite systems RPGs. Genesis RPGs often had weak translations, but saying that they all suck when you haven't played that many is pretty ignorant.


Anyways, PSIII sucks. I've heard of people enjoying the game, but I've never heard anyone praising it as an amazing game.
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Ashton
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2007, 05:01:48 AM »

Tria, your favorite game is one where people run through a TV into the fourth dimension. Logic and reason are not things you of all people should be assessing. :P
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2007, 05:39:07 AM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
...best RPG on the PS2 to best RPG on the GC (ToS or PM2, unless BKO is some unfathomably amazing improvement)...


It is. Baten Kaitos Origins is my favorite GC RPG, hands down.

Also, SNES > Genesis, especially with RPGs. That's just how it is. Genesis had some good ones, but SNES has the Squaresoft trump card. I have extremely fond memories of import Langrisser II (and, in some respects, its predecessor which came to the US as "Warsong")...but none of them can beat my love for FFIV, FFVI, Secret of Mana, or Chrono Trigger.

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Tria
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2007, 07:29:49 AM »

Quote from: "Leyviur"
Tria, your favorite game is one where people run through a TV into the fourth dimension. Logic and reason are not things you of all people should be assessing. :P


Hey now, that's not my favorite game. xP  I like the game, but mainly because of the gameplay and Fayt Leingod.

My favorite game is probably either Star Ocean 2, Valkyrie Profile 2, or Final Fantasy VI, which are a lot more logical than SO3. =P
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Dincrest
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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2007, 09:28:02 AM »

I think we can all agree that Phantasy Star 3 is the worst of the series.  But despite all the lousy elements (bad translation, bad music, bad graphics, slow gameplay), I liked the game.  The story got more interesting in the later generations, especially the 3rd generation where you got backstory into the whole thing.  However, it's like a 200 page book where all the good stuff starts happening on page 150 but you can't be bothered to get past page 25.  

Phantasy Star 3 is one of those games where a really good idea, the generations system, was not executed well.  

Phantasy Star 4 is easily one of the best RPGs I've ever played.  I played that thing to completion 3 times.  Fan-freaking-tastic game.  Easily rivals Chrono Trigger for fave 16-bit RPG.  The story may not have been as dynamic is prior Phantasy Star games (the predecessors introduced more innovative story elements that have become RPG standards) but PS4's presentation was amazing.  

As for logic in J-RPGs, don't make me laugh.  When have J-RPGs ever followed logic?  Characters who can endure powerful meteor spells with minor HP loss get perma-death by a knife for plot purposes.  The grizzled veteran soldier who steps aside to let the youth inherit the world is a whopping 21 years of age.  Skinny 14 year old farm boys are master swordsmen who can wield swords 3 times bigger than they are.  Despite there being weapon and armor shops all over the world, your party are the only ones out saving the world; you're the only one giving those shops business.  I could go on.  And when have J-RPGs ever NOT have contrived plot devices that make no sense?  Sure there are PLENTY of exceptions, but the RPG cliche list wouldn't exist if J-RPGs weren't doing the same ILLOGICAL things over and over again.  

If J-RPGs followed logic and realism the way we know it, they probably wouldn't be that much fun.  But as long as things make sense within the game world's context I'm cool.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2007, 10:12:15 AM »

Well guys, to tell you the truth. I kind of like PS3. The dungeons weren't quite as senselessly tedious as PS2 and the generation system is really interesting (and the most customization we get to see in a Genesis PS game). I also thought that the monster art was cool in an abstract kind of way. Plus, I enjoyed the overall flow and pacing of the game. Honestly, it comes in second (behind PS1) as my favorite PS game. I could care less about PS2 and PS4 (which to me, seems like a slightly fixed version of PS2). So, I suppose there is no accounting for taste, huh? Then again, I absolutely do not give a shit about story in games.
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Ventrue
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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2007, 05:13:02 PM »

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it's like a 200 page book where all the good stuff starts happening on page 150 but you can't be bothered to get past page 25.

My thoughts exactly.
As for the lack of logic, it's not a Genesis RPG thing, nor a J-RPG thing, it's in every RPG out there. It starts from the moment your character has "Hit Points" and goes on from there. Older games had little dedication to details, and not enough space to work with either. Get over it.
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Eusis
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2007, 05:28:34 PM »

There's another thing on a similar note actually: using your imagination. Pretty much no game then had elaborate cutscenes, so you may as well just imagine what the game doesn't fill in; hell, that applies even to modern games. Too few people/towns to be realistically plausible? There's probably hundreds and thousands more that simply aren't note worthy enough for the player to ever visit, so naturally you don't see them. Restrooms? The same way unless these people are freaks and have no need to relieve themselves, ever. That gargoyle thing at the beginning of PS3? Probably broke through a window.

Ofcourse, some games take themselves too literally and act as if there's nothing beyond what we see/are told, and that the battles happen exactly as we see. I think FFVII:AC and the story they put up counts as such, if not in the town department then in how battles work out.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2007, 05:38:40 PM »

I still say in the beginning of Thousand Arms, Jyabil's house in Boyzby was blown up real good by the bad guys because it was the only house in the game's world that had a toilet.  

Every house in Tales of Destiny had toilets too and Stahn even commented on some of the toilets.  

And don't get me started on the toilet demons in Persona.  They were downright evil.  

Meh, even the most realistic video games have to defy logic and realism in order to be fun.  The Sims, Shen Mue, and even those Japanese games where you simulate a job add unrealistic and "illogical" elements to make them fun.  

I couldn't help but think about Earthbound.  Earthbound takes place in a modern-day suburb that any of us could've lived in yet the game prides itself on its sheer lack of anything logical.  I approve of that nonsense.

Movies and such too.  The crazy stunts you see in John Woo movies (corkscrewing through the air with dual pistols blazing) defy all logic, reason, and even physics (you'd probably injure yourself or get all shot up by the enemy if you did that) but that's what makes those scenes so damn fun and awesome to watch.
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Tria
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2007, 05:49:22 PM »

My topic must have been really misleading.

I'm not talking about the actual logics of the game.  I'm talking about that PSIII is so stupid that it defies all logics (because very few things can actually be that blatantly stupid).  I know that rarely any JRPGs are logical in terms of realism.
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2007, 05:55:33 PM »

Maybe this is a stupid question, but... Is logics even a plural you should use for this instance?
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Dincrest
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2007, 06:29:59 PM »

Quote from: "Tria"
My topic must have been really misleading.

I'm not talking about the actual logic of the game.  I'm talking about that PSIII is so stupid that it defies all logic (because very few things can actually be that blatantly stupid).  I know that rarely any JRPGs are logical in terms of realism.


However, the argument you make regarding the "illogical" elements in PSIII are ones that someone else could make for any number of video games out there.

Of course, if you mean "illogical" in that as you're playing the game you find yourself saying "What the fuck were the developers thinking when they thought X, Y, or Z element in this game would actually be fun?"  then that's a whole different can of worms.  And, again, could easily be subjectively applied to other games.

In PSIII, my "WTF" was the pooled EXP.  I didn't like that when a monster yielded 45 EXP, it wasn't 45 EXP for each party member; it was 9 EXP for each of my 5 party members.  That made level grinding an absolute chore.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2007, 08:53:33 PM »

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That made level grinding an absolute chore.


Didn't the amount of XP total you got increase as you got more party members? Anyway, I never found the need for constant levelling like in PSII. The game seemed more forgiving as a whole.

Oh, anyway, right. RPGs are inherently bound to strange logic because of how abstract they are. Except RPGs abstract in a manner that's... abstract, while a similar abstracting genre like strategy games tends to mathematicize a more realistic... approach, I guess.

One of the things that I appreciated in Oblivion -- and this is something that pissed off the oldskool DF fanboys. Speaking of crappy dungeons, DAGGERFALL -- was the fact that it was moving to a less abstract approach. There are still numbers, but they matter less.

Of course, I also like the number-heavy, abstract approaches, but it's not the only way, some companies branching out is neat.

Also, the overworld theme for motavia in PSIV impresses me a lot because it's actually in a non 4/4 time signature. I'm think it's 3/2 or 3/4.

Anyway, the crappiness of the dungeons in PSII really annoyed me 'caused I liked the games style. I guess I like PSIV for the same reason. Anyway, PSI was a lot more fantasy than PSII was. In some regards, PSIII almost seems truer to its roots. Same for PSIV. PSII's attempt at going more hard sci-fi never really felt like it jived well with the series to me.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2007, 08:18:26 AM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"
In PSIII, my "WTF" was the pooled EXP.  I didn't like that when a monster yielded 45 EXP, it wasn't 45 EXP for each party member; it was 9 EXP for each of my 5 party members.  That made level grinding an absolute chore.


More RPGs do this than you would think. However, in Phantasy Star 3, it says you earn 45 EXP and then divides it. In most games, it just divides it for you and then tells you that you earned 9 EXP. For instance, in Etrian Odyssey (that's the best example I can think of because it's the game I happening to be playing) if one of your party members is dead, all the other characters get more experience. This is true in basically all D&D license games as well.
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