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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Shattre
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« on: May 17, 2007, 06:40:44 PM »

I came across a psychological phenominon recently, with myself, that I'd like to share.

Two series, X and Elfin Lied; their first episodes I found so tasteless (for different reasons) that I don't care if it the following material is the greatest stuff in the world, but I just can't think to take it at face value. At a certain point, if someone is able to put out something in such horrifically bad taste, I have no interest in hearing what they have to say about anything.

That said, I watched quite a bit more of X, and while it wasn't as horrifically pretentious as Episode 0, I just couldn't connect with it. I think I gave it a fair shot, and it just didn't do it for me. But with Elfin Lied, I was so disgusted, I have no interest in continuing. Note, I have no problem with violence or nudity, in the slightest, my problem was with the fact that the show seemed to relish every moment of the horrific violence, without recourse, and my friends (who were showing it to me) seemed to get off on that... as I suspect most fans did as well.

In the meantime, I hear a lot of people raiving about how good it is, and how the rest of it is NOTHING like the first episode. But still, I don't think I can ever take what the creators have to say, at face value, ever.

Anyone else have that experience, where something in an anime or movie disgusts you off so much that you can't take the rest of it at face value?
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Dincrest
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2007, 07:46:28 PM »

Elfen Lied is VERY much an acquired taste.  It's not for everyone.  It's brutal, gory, violent, and deals with the really fucked up sadistic aspects of humanity.  I love the series personally, but I found many aspects of it hard to watch.  I didn't find the violence itself any "worse" than that of Ninja Scroll or Fist of the North Star, but the motivations behind the always sadistic violence was what made much of it so disturbing.  When I was a kid, there were shitloads of tormentors I wished I could destroy the way Lucy did.
 
But when it comes to anime and the like, one thing I can never quite understand in Japanese culture is the love of and occasional glorification of incest and rape.  While this applies more to hentai anime and games, it can get pretty degenerate and gross.  It is disturbing seeing young anime girls who are WAAAAAY too attached to their older brothers or slightly older male cousins.  Hello?!?!?!?!  You're fucking related!  Boundaries people!!!  The love, and occasional glorification of, pedophilia can be disturbing too.  And that's not limited to hentai.  Lolita complex anyone?

In Elfen Lied for example,
Code:
the scenes between Kohta and Yuka were hard to stomach because they are cousins and were acting like lovers.
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2007, 07:58:48 PM »

It is interesting at how easilly the Japanese seem to laugh-off sexual degeneracy.

I recently watched Please Twins, and though I liked the series (not nearly as much as Teacher, but still...) the whole shit between the side-character kid and his younger sister, was just sick. Like, him getting really depressed when he finds out that she hadn't had her period, or peeping in on her in the bath. I really didn't need to see/think-about that. To me, it's just something to either be pissed off at, or just ignore (which I basically did in this case, because it was fairly minor and I generally enjoyed the rest of the series), but I could NEVER see actually "enjoying" it, and it disturbs me that some did.

Similarly, Azumanga Diaoh, possibly my favorite comedic anime, has the one male teacher (only male character in the series) who is obsessed with high school girls, and one of the characters in particular. It's supposed to be just a comic gag, and in some ways, it's so innocent, you can chalk it up to being non-sexual, but it's still a bit creepy. It's too bad, because i'd love to show the series to my mother, who was really big into Calvin & Hobbs back in the day, and really loves Mihazaki's stuff, but I know she'll be quite put off by that one little thing, to the point that she won't be able to take the rest of the anime series seriously.

It's too bad, because a lot of these little things are actually fairly minor, but the fact that the creators would actually think of applying them really puts people off.

I'd be interested though, what's the rape and molestation rates in Japan? Maybe joking about it actually gets it out into the open to a point where it doesn't happen as often, or maybe not. We think of Japan as being a fairly perverted society, but that may only be their outward appearence, or a way of blowing off steam.
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007, 09:03:37 PM »

Elfen Lied didn't really phase me besides the first 10 minutes of it and one episode later on. It was more of a "holy shit" than disgusting to me. Really, not very much anime has ever made me disgusted at all, excluding hentai(Bible Black.) I've even watched Gantz and some of Berserk and the gore and violence is on par with Elfen Lied.

The "one later episode" I'm talking about that disgusted me is the episode focusing on Mayu's past. Too far.....

And yeah Dincrest, the scene you're talking about also feels way out of place in the anime anyways.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 12:33:57 PM »

For me, the one scene in Elfen Lied that I found most difficult to watch was
Code:
when the kid brutally beat the puppy to death.


Admittedly, though I get a tad skeeved at the sometimes odd portrayals of rape/incest/pedo stuff in anime, a lot of times it's context dependent.  The one episode of Boogiepop Phantom showcasing the guy with a loli complex was disturbing and it was meant to be so.

EDIT: Another thing that can prevent me from taking a series seriously is when it's overly fanservicey.  That's why, for example, I much prefer Noir than Najica Blitz Tactics where the fanservice is overt and stupid.  

And what *IS* up with Japanese and almost incestuous relationships between cousins?  I mentioned the Yuka/Kohta bit in Elfen Lied, but I also recall the beginning of Star Ocean 3 where Sofia is said to be Fayt's cousin, yet she acts like his girlfriend or something.  I mean, ewwww.  I wanted to rip Sofia and Yuka out of the TV, smack them and yell in their faces "HE'S...YOUR...FUCKING...COUSIN!!!!!!!!  YOU'RE FUCKING RELATED!!!!!!!!!!!!  Unless something's just been really lost in translation and "cousin" in Japan is more akin to "super close family friend" than an actual blood relative.
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