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Author Topic: Manchester Cathedral upset over Resistance: Fall of Man  (Read 2743 times)
Eusis
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« on: June 09, 2007, 05:46:09 PM »

BBC link.

Comments?
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Degolas
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2007, 06:04:38 PM »

I doubt shooting aliens in a cathedral is going to encourage gun crime.

Manchester can fuck off.
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everluck
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2007, 08:37:59 PM »

Another stupid claim against the video game community.

Religions have been featured in video games plenty of times before. Why a complaint now? Who cares?
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Dincrest
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2007, 08:53:19 PM »

Wait, does this cathedral in Manchester even remotely think they'll WIN the case if they sue Sony?  Get real.  

As for the article as a whole, it's the same old story we've heard before from the more uptight religious people blaming popular media for society's ills without getting all their facts straight.
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Bernhardt
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2007, 11:03:25 PM »

Whoa, hey, I'm religious, and I'm sure as Hell not taking this out of context! (Mixed message, much?)

What people often fail to do is take these things in context.

In Resistance: Fall of Man, you have extraterrestrials invading Earth. Do you think those aliens are going to respect your holy grounds? Hell no, so you got to shoot them off of them! Step into a church, defile it, and then get blown away = God's just and divine wrath!

...

On the other hand, you have to understand that the British en generale are pretty squeamish about gun violence. I've heard about some incidents that far trump Columbine or anything related or similar.
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Lard
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2007, 01:44:13 AM »

They're bitter because Sony didn't ask "permission" to use the cathedral.

I'm sure Germany can now turn around and sue every WWII FPS maker that exists today!

Let's clog the courts with useless lawsuits like this one!
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Tomara
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2007, 03:44:37 AM »

I wonder what will happen if (when?) they notice other videogames. This is not exactly new. I remember seeing a similar scenario in one of the Onimusha games. Or what about games such as Joan d' Arc and Shin Megami Tensei?
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Ashton
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2007, 06:04:34 AM »

See, this is why some people hate organized religion. Because they come up with this shit.
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Ramza
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2007, 06:20:30 AM »

Wow. Not in response to the article, but in response to all of you: wow.

The amount of gun violence in Manchester is apparently pretty bad, and yes, the UK is more sensitive to it than here in the US.

I really think you all are missing the point. If Resistance: Fall of Man had a shoot-out scene in another large, familiar location in Manchester, I think the response would have been the same. Religion is *not* the issue here (nor does anyone in either party claim it to be...except maybe media spin). Community trouble and violence is the point. Religion-bashers step aside, you're missing the whole fucking point.

The problem here is that, apparently, the people of Manchester are very sensitive to the issue, and Sony was *probably* quite unaware of that when it happened. For over a decade people have been making games with a fictitious plot that happen in REAL WORLD settings. Occasionally, this causes problems, and I think this is one of those cases.

Seriously, imagine: you're a kid growing up in Manchester. You buy Resistance: Fall of Man. It looks like a fun game and all. And then, tada!, you're shooting the shit out of evil creatures in a Cathedral that's a few blocks down from your house. How does your mind process this? You may be like, "cool, 15 minutes of fame, my hometown got recognized in a game!" But, if you're one of those teens who's already entrenched in this gun-toting youth culture, you might have a passing thought: "wow, it'd be fun to REALLY go hog wild with a gun in that Cathedral."

I feel like none of you have any tact in this situation. Imagine being the people who attend that Cathedral on a regular basis, and then discovering media like Resistance: Fall of Man exists and is readily available for your teens. It would shock you.

That said, I don't think *legal action* would do any good, and it's absurd that the Anglican Church thinks it could get a game banned from stores. But I think they have a right to be upset, and I think Sony needs to be more sensitive to these things in the future. Honestly, you're going to let Sony look like the *good guy* in this mess? :P

Ramza
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2007, 06:34:48 AM »

Not that I don't get where you're coming from, but this really seems blown out of proportion. This is like that time when Las Vegas tried to sued Ubi Soft or something for making their city the setting for a Tom Clancy game. If anyone draws realistic perspective from a game, then they're messed up, game or not. Besides that, it's not like you're running into the Church and killing some guy preaching the word of God in the game, you're killing evil aliens trying to blow up the Earth.

In case your religion statement was aimed at or inclusive to me, my post wasn't about religion bashing, more that the noise made by the Manchester Church makes them look foolish in the eyes of others; most people will go "Why are they getting angry over a game?" just like how people reacted to the Las Vegas case.

I dunno, I don't see much of a problem here; things like this are 'been there, done that' and if 95% of the people don't care, it only serves to highlight how that last 5% look like attention craving idiots when they stir stuff up over a game, especially when it involves legal action. Tell people they shouldn't buy it or something, but when you append legal action to something like this it just looks like a cheap buck to me.
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Bernhardt
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2007, 06:35:49 AM »

Sony's really been doing quite a job of being rockstar lately.

I wouldn't be surprised if they knew that something like this would actually push buttons.

Cases in point:

PS3 Adult Ad: http://www.gametab.com/news/927953/

God of War Publicity Stunt: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=451414&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

I wouldn't recommend clicking on either if pornography and Greek...whatever-they-call-ems aren't your thing.
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Eusis
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2007, 06:45:45 AM »

In this case, I don't see it being much different from Silicon Knights using a church in France for Eternal Darkness. That probably was worse anyway. Sony's attempts at controversy have mostly been in their ads, their developers (especially ones like Insomniac and Naughty Dog) aren't really into this kinda crap.

For some background on this particular scene: The church was converted to a hospital for while they fought the Chimera. Ultimately however they were overwhelmed and had to abandon the city. The game takes place sometime after what remained of England more or less had to go into hiding, and this was just a stop on the way for a mission to retrieve cargo in Manchester.

I suppose the problem can be more severe than I thought, but my initial impression was that this sounded like yet another group running around flailing their arms over some big bad video game that makes their place look bad. Even if warranted though, this legal action and crap is just dumb and I question if it will go anywhere, not to mention it'd be a shame for the one good, exclusive retail game on the PS3 to get ripped from shelves over something like this that meant no harm (I'm not really sure it /can/ be conveniently edited out). I guess I can't really suggest a different course of action that wouldn't seem like yet more obnoxious 'video games are EVIL' crap.

Edit: And ultimately, if someone's nuts they're going to snap no matter what. If some shithead really does get the idea of shooting up the Manchest Cathedral, they might've done it with any provocation, or did it elsewhere instead. Hell, look at that shortlived "FINAL FANTASY VII IS A KILLER VIDEO GAME" in Germany, those were putzes going around pretending they're Sephiroth and one of the Turks, and to some degree it was seriously taken that FFVII made the killers/kidnappers.

And... Turning around from all the Sony defending to an attack on them, how many people own PS3s anyway, live in Manchester or at least near it, and are mentally unhinged enough to be 'provoked' by this? I bet that number's... Zero.

Edit: Changed Nintendo to Silicon Knights. Since they're not with Nintendo now, they REALLY can't be regarded as the same now.
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Lard
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2007, 08:12:24 AM »

Quote from: "Ramza"
I feel like none of you have any tact in this situation. Imagine being the people who attend that Cathedral on a regular basis, and then discovering media like Resistance: Fall of Man exists and is readily available for your teens. It would shock you.


No. It's got nothing to do with "sensitive" people and how they'd react.

This is a simple cash grab on the part of the church.

The endless amounts of games featuring Germany as Nazi "bad guys" no doubt pisses them off.

Eusis' example of the cathedral in Franch in Eternal Darkness is an excellent point.

Next you're going to tell me that NY can sue Rockstar for using the NY city skyline.

How is this *any* different from movies like Escape From NY/LA or any disaster movie that features a real life location?

It's not.

This is a simple cash grab because video games are under attack from everywhere nowadays, and the church probably figures they can at least get as far as a settlement, with Sony paying them off, because they'll probably lose.

As for Sony - they *are* the good guy - because they didn't do anything wrong.

We have no taste in this situation?

You need to lighten up.
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Ramza
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2007, 08:51:56 AM »

You're so wrong Lard.

1) it's not a cash grab because there's no way in hell the church would win a law suit against SONY. Remember, it's free to threaten to sue, but it costs money to try to sue.

2) it's not a cash grab because what the people @ Manchester Cathedral really want is to not have the cathedral in games where there's violence. If you think there's some ulterior motive, than I think you've lost touch with reality.

3) there are big differences between this instance, and say, using the NYC skyline or the "Escape From" movies. For one, the films you mentioned would have gotten permission (and even had PLENTY OF COOPERATION) from relevant government officials, etc. Apparently, Sony did not get permission from Manchester, so that's one difference. Next, I doubt Manchester officials are joking or exaggerating when they say that there has been gun violence in their community and it legitimately frightens them. Not that NYC or LA *doesn't* have gun violence, but it also happens that we here in America are big fans of glorifying it.

Ash, I didn't consider you a religion basher. In fact, I'm not sure that any particular poster here was bashing religion. But if they are here and saying the things they say because they have a particular bent against religion and using this as an outlet, that's when I bust out my "gtfo" skills.

Your second post clarifies your point well. You're right, it is blown out of proportion.

Ramza
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2007, 10:15:07 AM »

Quote from: "Ramza"
You're so wrong Lard.

1) it's not a cash grab because there's no way in hell the church would win a law suit against SONY. Remember, it's free to threaten to sue, but it costs money to try to sue.

The Church of England is considering legal action against entertainment firm Sony for featuring Manchester Cathedral in a violent PlayStation video game.

Really? It looks to me like they're going to sue - or try and get a settlement. Cash Grab.

2) it's not a cash grab because what the people @ Manchester Cathedral really want is to not have the cathedral in games where there's violence. If you think there's some ulterior motive, than I think you've lost touch with reality.

But the Church said Sony did not ask for permission to use the cathedral and has demanded an apology and the removal of the game from shop shelves - otherwise it will consider legal action.

I'm sorry - *censorship* and a cash grab.

3) there are big differences between this instance, and say, using the NYC skyline or the "Escape From" movies. For one, the films you mentioned would have gotten permission (and even had PLENTY OF COOPERATION) from relevant government officials, etc. Apparently, Sony did not get permission from Manchester, so that's one difference. Next, I doubt Manchester officials are joking or exaggerating when they say that there has been gun violence in their community and it legitimately frightens them. Not that NYC or LA *doesn't* have gun violence, but it also happens that we here in America are big fans of glorifying it.


Look. A building is not copyright. I don't need permission to draw a picture of a church. If I paint a picture of a church, and sell it, I don't need the church's permission.

If I draw the same church being burned down by some fanatic Norwegian black metal fan, and sell it, I don't need the church's permission.

If I decide to make a horror game, put a church in which several young children eat somone and then hang themselves, sell it, I don't need the church's permission.

A building is not copyright. THe Church is simply trying to go for a cash grab and bully Sony because they think they can get away with it.
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