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Author Topic: The Very Saddest games...  (Read 20762 times)
Marshmallow
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2007, 02:51:27 AM »

Quote from: "Eusis"

Yeah, you doomed this thread. Oh, it's fine now, but wait until someone like Dade reads this shit. Then this topic will be going to hell.


You know, I don't even read most of his posts anymore, you point out all I really need to see, Eus.


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Final Fantasy VII is an obvious, if only for the death of Aeris; I was unable to function normally for a week after witnessing that.


Do you have friends? And I swear to God if you say you become attached to RPG characters as if they're your friends, I'll be the one who's fucking traumatized.

To actually fucking contribute again: Shadow Hearts II had awesome potential for being even sadder, due to the whole plotline with Yuri and Alice. The game as a whole ended up being more quirky and less dark, but I think they did a pretty good job with
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the scene where Yuri and Roger attempt to resurrect Alice but it fails.
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Eusis
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« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2007, 02:56:05 AM »

I realized I forgot to what I originally wanted to reply to Bernhardt about, before I read that FFVII/Evangelion thing.
Quote from: "Bernhardt"
I completely forgot about Chrono Trigger, but Chrono is probably the first hero death in an RPG or Squaresoft game EVAR, even before Aeris.

Nah. Way before either Nei died in PSII (if we're not spoiler tagging Chrono, may as well not bother with Nei either). Chrono MIGHT be the first main character to die though, and that's still not done very often. I can think of... 3 games that did it? And two didn't really stick with it. Maybe 4, one of them had an ambiguous ending that was only clarified after meeting specific requirements.

For those 4 games, along with a bunch of other spoilers in regards to them...

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Final Fantasy X, Disgaea, Suikoden IV, and Digital Devil Saga. Final Fantasy X coped out with X-2, Disgaea just didn't have Laharl die in any but the normal ending (that I know of), and he came back as a Prinny anyway. SuikIV's lead goes MIA but you see him drifting in a boat at sea if you get 108 stars. And DDS just fucking massacred the entire cast and went nutso after that. Heck, arguably Serph died /twice/ before he ultimately kicked the bucket. I suppose you could argue reincarnation, but this has gone on long enough and any case where the personality isn't kept doesn't really qualify to me. Plus that whole Seraph thing.
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Ramza
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2007, 03:30:56 AM »

I have a few things to say for this thread.

First of all, death =/=sadness and sadness=/=death. Almost all the posts here talking about the sadness of a game is "so-and-so died in such-and-such game." Yeah, okay. I think I have a few better examples. But first...

Quote from: "Bernhardt"
Chrono Trigger is sad, because we don't know what happened to Schala.

What did she do wrong? She was a victim of duty; she obeyed her mother, and helped her summon Lavos. But why? All we can say is that because of filial duty.


Schala was awesome in every sense of the word, and we all know that her grand moment comes in Chrono Cross. I didn't sense a sadness there...I wanted answers. And as screwed up as the timeline becomes with CC's plot, the "true" ending made me feel a hell of a lot better about Schala and everything that happened. No sadness there for me.

Quote from: "Lucid"
I kind of found SaGa frontier 2 to be a little sad in some ways. It wasn't particularly one event or another, just the mood in a lot of the game was rather morose. Most of the characters didn't seem to find peace or fullfillment in their lives. There was always something left undone for many of them. Also the abruptness of some of the fates of characters, like that brother and sister you meet, and then her brother gets turned into some monster. Rich Knights had a sad story too I guess.


Yes, yes, and yes. Unlike the other SaGa games, which allow you to pick different characters to play during the same generation, SaGa Frontier II takes you through roughly two centuries of life in a beautiful but broken world. I loved this game to pieces, and I think everything about it presents a sort of beautiful, tragic melancholy: the watercolors, the music, and the lives of the individual people. It's not about their death, it's about the brevity and unfulfilled dreams of their lives. Great call Lucid!

I'd have quickly picked SaGa Frontier II as a "sad" game. Here are a few more:

Vagrant Story
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Any story with "villain change" is ripe for some heart-wrenching moments, IF you do it right. And VS definitely did it right. The scene before you go to the rooftop at the end of the game, where Ashley and Sydney sort of...come to terms with things, and realize they have the same goal...that meant a lot to me. And, for Ashley, it's not necessarily the death of his family that's sad, it's the haunting imagery and flashbacks you get that TELL the story throughout the game. It's slow-paced, but it's so moving.


Chrono Cross
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...had a song in it called "people seized with life." The song itself was beautiful. It played twice in the game, once when you fought Miguel (your best friend's father), and again in an optional fight with Dario (sp?). Now I know I just harped about death not necessarily being tragic, and you DO kill Miguel. But to me, the tragic part here is that he feels he MUST fight you for revenge, or whatever reason. The music really helps to carry this scene.


Xenosaga III
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Again, I rely a lot on music here. Hepatica #1, the music that plays when you have the final confrontation with T-elos, essentially in a battle for who will control the soul of Mary Magdalene. The 30 minutes of cutscenes before and after this battle are action-packed, and again, very moving. Most of XS3 was very moving to me, especially the last 10 hours of the game. It's a lot to take in.


Star Ocean: The Second Story
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There's a scene after Rena's discovered she came from the DISTANT, DISTANT past. Like 72 billion years or some absurd number. She gives this speech about this giant, old tree, and how much it has seen; but she herself is from a time so far removed from the age of this tree, she feels she has NOTHING to connect herself to. This was a touching moment that required zero death.


Baten Kaitos Origins
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The tragedy of what really happened to the world, and who Malpercio really is. This one was well played. I can usually predict what happens in a game long before it does, usually because they design it so that we CAN make these guesses. But there were a few details I never would've guessed here.


Shadow Hearts: From The New World
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Okay, this is a *death* one. It's about sacrifice: how your sister sacrificed her life and indeed her being to let you live again. I really thought this story progression was well played, with you slowly discovering who "Lady" really is.


Final Fantasy VIII
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Say what you will. This game was rife with characters having to make difficult decisions based on limited knowledge. Cid opting to try and kill his wife for the good of the world; the idea that becoming a powerful fighter (through use of GFs) is destroying your memory (not to mention that Cid apparently did this to most of you INTENTIONALLY); most of the pre-generation storyline regarding both Squall's and Rinoa's parents is good; yeah, there's almost too much here. I thought that with a little more detail and a slightly faster pace, people would respect this story a lot more.


Those are my entries. They are moments that are just *hard* for me to forget. I know we've had plenty of debates on things like "can games be a form of art?" or "is storyline the most important part of an RPG?", and obviously, I invest a lot more into the story and the "artsy" side of the game than many other people do. I don't want to be in this for some cheap thrill: if that's ALL it was, I would've stopped playing games a long time ago. Moments like these keep me afloat in the world of videogames, and I have much respect for the developers who put time and effort into these things.

Ramza
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Eusis
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2007, 03:45:15 AM »

You're right, it's more than just characters dying. It's loss period that's tragic, but someone dying's the easiest way of evoking that.

As for the story thing: ... I wanna make a new topic about that. Forget about RPGs though, it's a matter for all video games now. I just haven't been satisfied with what I've typed up when I tried to do so.

Edit: And the last general one was just a few monthes ago, thought that was just me posting a feature on the topic.
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Ramza
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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2007, 03:57:07 AM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
As for the story thing: ... I wanna make a new topic about that. Forget about RPGs though, it's a matter for all video games now. I just haven't been satisfied with what I've typed up when I tried to do so.


I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
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Tomara
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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2007, 04:27:49 AM »

One of the saddest things I ever encountered was the story of the princess in Okage: Shadow King. Before you think WTF?! read:

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Her father created the whole world for her to have adventures in, just like fairytale princess. He is obsessed with her happiness and will do anything to protect what he thinks will make her happy.

But the princess gets lost in the world and ends up in Triste, a town filled with people who were forgotten by the rest of the world. Their shadows are so thin, nobody notices them anymore. They don't even notice eachother, they live isolated lives in their own little world. The princess is too scared to leave her house, because she thinks people will not be able to see her.

Meanwhile her father found a doll and started treating it as if it was the real princess, even though his real daughter is right beneath his nose.


No deaths or anything, just a tale that is in some ways very close to reality.

Legend of Mana had it's moments too, the game was actually filled with sad stories. It doesn't even shy away from genocide, but you could play the game without ever finding out about it.

Terranigma wasn't much better, when I was younger, the game made me cry several times. The mountaingoat, Louran, the ending...

And Drakengard too, especially the bond between Caim and the dragon, how it grew and evolved and how it was eventually cut.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2007, 12:44:02 PM »

Pat and others- good point about death and sadness.  While death is certainly a tragic thing, the saddest moments I've seen in video games were more about life than death.  

For example in FF7, Aeris' death didn't really choke me up that much.  However, I felt big time during the: (I don't need to code FF7 spoilers, right?)

Cid and Shera scene where she aborted the launch due to a faulty gas tank and Cid held a grudge against her for a long time for killing his dream.  I thought Shera's story was the saddest in the game.  For her to endure the abuse from Cid for so long, that's a tragic plight; especially knowing that she saved his life and he won't believe that.

Everyone in FF7 had a sad story, but Shera's was the most tragic to me.

EDIT: Marshmallow, you'd be surprised how many people have those kinds of reactions when playing love adventures.  There's this one love adventure I played where you can either mend a rocky relationship with your girlfriend or chase after one of the other girls.  People who play that game start feeling guilty when they make certain decisions.  That's when they really have to step back and remind themselves that it's only a video game.
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daschrier
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« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2007, 01:22:44 PM »

Xenogears wasn't necessarily sad, but it made me pretty emotional.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2007, 02:16:50 PM »

I think i saw someone mention Terranigma. Quite. The part where you have to eat that animal after it fell down the... landslide thing (Goat? Elk?) was... odd.

the junkyard of toys in legend of mana was awesomely warped too!

also the harvest moon series had various sad moments. karen's implied suicide! that seen in the original where elle's bird flies away (P-Chan? Ptitsa-chan?)! the entirety of forget-me-not-valley!
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« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2007, 08:39:57 PM »

Dincrest: great one with Shera/Cid... especially the end of that plot arc, she gives up her life so that Cid can fulfill his dream.

But there's one everyone's forgetting, that just killed me:

Celes's attempted suicide in FF6. That was probably one of the saddest moments I've ever seen. She's lead to believe that she and Cid are the last ones left alive in the world. Then Cid dies (if you don't go through the fish catching thing) and she has absolutely nothing left to live for.

'caurse they coutch it in a thin vail of hope through the whole "clif of wishes" thing, but it's pretty fucking obvious what they're really talking about, there.

Not much suicide in video games, these days. Quite a bit of self-sacrifices, but not all-out suicide from simply not wanting to live anymore. You'd think that out of all the "end of the world" scenarios, quite a few people would become nihilistic about life, and just end it all.

Eh, Japan has a high enough suicide rate, maybe it's best not to tempt fate and risk having some copy-cat fans do it.
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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2007, 08:52:48 PM »

Characters who seriously contemplate suicide?  You can find them in Persona 1 and Ever17, and all things considered, the characters in question in those games actually have justifiable (or at least semi-justifiable) reasons for wanting to end their lives.
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Bernhardt
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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2007, 09:12:52 PM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
Dincrest: great one with Shera/Cid... especially the end of that plot arc, she gives up her life so that Cid can fulfill his dream.

Uhh, no she doesn't. When Cid & Co. actually launch into space, Shera's still perfectly live and well.

When you pass the oxygen tank that Shera was checking, it explodes, and your other two party members aren't able to lift the debris off of Cid. But then Shera comes along from the next room over, and helps free him. Then, the four of you board an escape pod. Remember?

I will agree that the Shera-Cid relationship is interesting, seeing as how they live together, but they're not married, and they probably don't have sex together, and how Shera feels guilty and accepts Cid's abuse.
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Marshmallow
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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2007, 09:13:30 PM »

Replying to Din:

I wasn't implying that I've never had powerful reactions to certain story-aspects in RPGs (though I tend to react to more powerful scenes when they're happy rather than sad. For example, in Suikoden V
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I got a little sniffly when the citizens of Lordlake got to experience fresh water again for the first time in two years
.) I was simply trying to point out that certain over-the-top reactions don't seem to make sense to me, unless someone is lacking said relationship that caused the reaction in their real life.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2007, 09:40:05 PM »

Quote from: "Marshmallow"
I was simply trying to point out that certain over-the-top reactions don't seem to make sense to me, unless someone is lacking said relationship that caused the reaction in their real life.


And all I was really saying was that if you thought what you saw in this thread was a "nonsensical" extreme, you find even worse ones among love adventure otakus.  I find it silly when people feel guilty about making decisions that jilt one girl in favor of another in love adventures.  I mean, it's a video game and real girls aren't predictable anime chick archetypes.  I'll bet anyone who tries the approaches used in love adventures would crash and burn.   And anyone who tries to find a girl "just like X in such-and-such a game" will fail miserably.  

But by mentioning relationships, though, you bring up an interesting point about attachment to characters or scenarios.  I mention love adventures, which are all about relationships.  We do find ourselves reacting both positively and negatively towards characters and character situations based on what we see in our own lives.  Art imitating life and all that.  For me, the relationship between Cid and Shera is similar to relationships I see quite a bit in my own family which is probably why it stood out to me so much.  

I think that may be why Squall gets both revered and reviled.  People love him because he reminds them of themselves.  People also hate him because he reminds them of themselves.  

But I digress.  Although our own relationships with people and the world do play a part in our emotional attachment/investment in stories and characters.
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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2007, 09:40:26 PM »

I'm surprised that Drakengard (the 1st a& 2nd) didn't get waaaaaaaay more mention.  That game is depressing to shit man!!!!!

To make a long, long story short.... I have never seen more chaos in one game as that one.

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