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Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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Dincrest
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« Reply #105 on: June 26, 2007, 06:35:58 PM »

Just remember kids, when you point a finger at someone, you point 3 back at yourself. Before telling others to lighten up, take a good look in the mirror. Perhaps you need to lighten up yourself before making that demand on others. :P

In any case, I too notice that many people associate death with sad.  But in some storylines, death can be a joyful thing.  I mean, when the wicked witch of the east was killed in Wizard of Oz, everyone rejoiced, danced and sang "ding dong the witch is dead!"  Or in any given RPG, we're pretty darn happy when the bad guy dies at the end.  

Or even in tarot readings, the "death" card means transition.  Like the death of something making way for the birth of something else.  Death can actually be a very positive card in tarot readings.  

Then again, as I've said many times in this thread, the saddest moments I've experienced in storylines (video game or otherwise) came not from deaths, but rather from stories of tragic lives.  There are stories I've experienced where the most tragic character with the most heart-wrenching storyline is one who cannot die and has had to endure an often miserable existence for a wickedly long time.  

Most emotionally charged video game for me is still Ever17.
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« Reply #106 on: June 26, 2007, 07:08:47 PM »

Quote from: "KeeperX"
Quote from: "The Darkrider"
The green bar under your name doesn't make you immune to the rules; only the blue bar does. :P


WHY DON'T YOU SUCK MY ASS, MESSAGE BOARD ADMIN?

I CAN DO WHAT I WANT, IT'S MY BODY!


IT COMES

IT COOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMES





...Great, now I have to let one person slide for derailing a thread. :P
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« Reply #107 on: June 26, 2007, 07:33:35 PM »

What is the green bar, anyway? Or does it just mean, "no life?"

Oh, and what's up with Eusis's rainbow bar bow bar?
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« Reply #108 on: June 26, 2007, 07:36:17 PM »

Green bar = RPGFan staff

Blue bar = RPGFan staff with board admin powers

Rainbow bar = unbelievably gay
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Eusis
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« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2007, 02:03:09 AM »

Quote from: "The Darkrider"
Rainbow bar = unbelievably gay

I'm the happiest person on these boards!
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« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2007, 02:03:40 AM »

Quote from: "The Darkrider"
Rainbow bar = unbelievably gay


How dare you.
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im gay
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #111 on: June 27, 2007, 03:09:02 AM »

There's nothing really unbelievable or unexpected about the gay that bar represents.
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o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

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« Reply #112 on: June 27, 2007, 03:40:26 PM »

Quote from: "The Darkrider"
Quote from: "KeeperX"
Quote from: "The Darkrider"
The green bar under your name doesn't make you immune to the rules; only the blue bar does. :P


WHY DON'T YOU SUCK MY ASS, MESSAGE BOARD ADMIN?

I CAN DO WHAT I WANT, IT'S MY BODY!


IT COMES

IT COOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMES





...Great, now I have to let one person slide for derailing a thread. :P


You know the ban hammer would make a good cheap ass weapon in a RPG. Though sadly only admin can use it.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #113 on: June 27, 2007, 07:57:49 PM »

Also: Huhuhuh. Gay bar.

Anyway.

This is sort of appropriate for this thread, I guess. Okay. So, in older RPGs, I notice a lot of like, fatalism, maybe? I can't really describe it. It's a certain mood, that I think is shown sort of well by FFL1. You know that you're goal is at the top of the tower, and you're basically headed there from the beginning, and along the way you see people living miserable lives and dying pointless deaths, each life more miserable and each death more pointless/horrible than the last.

Sort of some march towards inevitability thing.

Oh, what else? You know how in Dragon Warrior 1, the final castle was like, right across the lake from the starting town? Things like that. The story in DW1 wasn't really anything major, but there was a certain mood there that was basically the same thing as in FFL1. You have a defined path to the enemy, with a lot of towns along the way in the immediate path of destruction. It does give a sense of... maybe urgency or impending doom.

It's not a distant evil. It's a very looming, clear and present threat.

I think this is also an important concept to dungeon crawlers. I mean good dungeon crawlers. The kind with puzzles and characters. Not the ones that are equivalents of mazes with lots of meaningless killing. The good ones use your progression downwards, to some inevitable evil, as a mirror of the progressing difficulty, strenth of characters, distance from safety, and... shift from the status quo, I guess.

Also, one plot mechanic I see used WAY too much -- So in so isn't really the true villain! I think too many games focus too much on shocking the player instead of, say, taking the FFVI route and just coming up with one well thought-out villain that's there the whole time.

Aaaalso the tendency for RPG stories to be macro-epics anymore. I think you CAN pan the story out to the point where it stops feeling important, even if it's not just filler you're putting in.
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o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Prime Mover
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« Reply #114 on: June 27, 2007, 08:37:11 PM »

Actually, this brings up another point that really interests me. One reason I consider FF6 to be the first contemporary jRPG is that it is the earliest, that I can think of, that accepts humanity, itself, as the ultimate evil. In all previous games in the series, humans are simply the victims of evil spirits, gods, or demons... or even simply one possessed or derranged individual. But in FFVI, all the evil in the game can be traced to normal humans, and their lust for power. This was a major step, as every other game would cop-out at the last minute (even FF9 sorta does... although I consider Kuja to be quite possibly the most "human" villain I've ever seen). I'm sure there were others before it, but at least of major jRPGs, that was the first.
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Eusis
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« Reply #115 on: June 27, 2007, 08:55:59 PM »

Prime Mover: I haven't beaten FFIX yet, but have you played through the Suikodens, or at least II?

Anyways, you could argue there's an earlier example, PSII.
Code:
In the end, it's revealed that humanity fucked up Earth, then went off to find a new home. They found the Algo system, and used Mother Brain to Terraform Motavia and make life luxurious and easy for the whole star system so they could easily invade and wipe out the native life there. Sure, it's not the character's race of humanity to blame, and you could probably do 'blah blah controlled by Dark Force', but it did come before.


FFIV possibly counts too actually, if you regard the Lunarians as more or less humans, which would make Zemus qualify, even if it was his evil spirit or whatever that came back and was the final boss.

... Actually, FFII did the whole 'evil empire' thing where you ultimately fought off against the Emperor. That almost seems like a spoiler, and the game hasn't really been out for that long in the US, but it just... feels like such a basic fact it's not worth hiding. :P
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #116 on: June 27, 2007, 09:34:16 PM »

You suddenly got me wondering whether there's some connection to how Dark Force gets romanized occasionally as Dark Phallus, and how Dark Force is blatantly masculine in appearance, wheras The Profound Darkness is quite feminine. I mean, I doubt this was planned from the get-go, but I'm wondering if it did maybe influence the style of The Profound Darkness in PSIV.

Granted, she also really looks like Mother Brain, so...

!@@#%, I want someone to remake PS2 and 3 with dungeons that DON'T suck. A rom-hacking might be in order.
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o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Prime Mover
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« Reply #117 on: June 27, 2007, 09:49:30 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
Prime Mover: I haven't beaten FFIX yet, but have you played through the Suikodens, or at least II?


I've played through III and V (liked V better). And yes, they are great examples of the evils of humanity... however Suiko I is much newer than FF6.

And, as I took it, Zeromus is NOT simply the spirit form of Zemus. Zeromus is the evil spirit possessing Zemus, making Zemus, himself, just another helpless victim. The whole theme of FFIV, in fact, seems to be puppet figures. You go up through the chain of command, and every villain is simply some schmuck who was possessed by something evil, until you find out that the ultimate evil is just a demon/spirt. It sort of endlessly passes the blame, as if humanity is never responsible for its own faults.
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ZE GRAND MASTER
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« Reply #118 on: July 02, 2007, 12:17:32 PM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
... although I consider Kuja to be quite possibly the most "human" villain I've ever seen).


What?
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Transvestite monkeys created in research laboratories are an example of humanity?
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Lucid
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« Reply #119 on: July 02, 2007, 02:34:39 PM »

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the social/emotional aspect of humanity.
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