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Author Topic: PC/Console separation needs to exist...  (Read 3611 times)
Prime Mover
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« on: June 11, 2007, 09:36:18 PM »

I was just speaking with a friend of mine today, an avid PC gamer (he'll also play handhelds, but not TV-consoles), and we actually AGREED on something game related: the PC/Console separation is failing, and that's a not a good thing. It seems to be a common thread among both PC and Console gamers, maybe the ONE thing the two divided communties can agree on: "PC and Consoles really need to stay separate".

Currently, noone's very satisfied. Suddenly, new crossover fans, now on consoles, are demanding that old console game series be updated to include new, traditionally PC-only features like online multi-player, sandbox play, and keyboard connectivity. On the flipside, PC gamers are furious to see their favorite series migrate over to the console world.

Take a series of threads that arrose on Nintendo's absolutely idiotic forum regarding Metroid Prime 3. Suddenly, you see "fans" who are claiming that they'll boycott the game unless they get full online multi-player. My reaction is that, if you're asking for multi-player Metroid/Zelda/Final Fantasy, etc, you're really missing the point. 3 years ago, you'd never have seen this.

The bottom line is that the platforms are converging, and instead of keeping genres separate and distinct, developers are trying to meet the fans of both platforms halfway as a way of coaxing people on board... and it's doing much more harm than good.

I'm really hoping that Fallout 3 and Starcraft 2 are as great as everyone wants them to be, because it'll help revitalize the PC gaming world, and keep the two camps separate. I'd love to go play Fallout 3 and Starcraft 2, myself... but keep them fundimentally different from console games.
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Eusis
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 10:03:59 PM »

Sorry, but Fallout 3's confirmed for the X360. After the success Oblivion had, why would they keep them exclusive to one platform?

I sorta agree. I think it could be good though to have sensibilities from one or the other (mostly PC to console) be taken and adapted properly for the platform in question. Keyboards and mice aren't really necessary short of text chat, since games are perfectly playable with dual analog, but PC games shouldn't be forced to fit into gamepad play because Microsoft wants to make the X360 pad as close to mandatory as possible. And sometimes, regardless of platform, games just don't need certain features. I'd be pissed if a Halo game didn't come with online, and I'd really like to have it in some of these action RPGs and something like Heroes of Mana probably could've benefitted alot. But I'm not going to be pissed if Metroid doesn't have online, and see no good reason for Zelda unless there's a new version of Four Swords. Heck, I never even played MP2 multiplayer, Metroid's simply not the first thing I htink of for Multiplayer.

Still though, I like to get some PC games for consoles because getting a powerful enough PC can be very expensive. Maybe my computer's so outdated that I can't properly play modern games on it, but it's not so old that I can't use it for other stuff. I shouldn't miss out on games that can be successfully ported over just for the sake of some purity nonsense. Yeah, Deus Ex had to have some serious compromises, but F.E.A.R., as far as I know, didn't have to be diminished for consoles. Also, I ideally prefer to get the ability to play like on the original platform if possible, IE computer FPSes being ported and supporting keyboard/mouse, or console games allowing gamepads. Why the fuck doesn't KotOR or Fable support the gamepad? Even if redesigned to work fine for keyboard and mouse, it seems utterly stupid to just disregard what's put in and already works.

Edit: You know, this might work better in general. If it was just about RPGs or at least borderline games like the System/Bioshock games, then it wouldn't really matter. But this seems to apply to the industry on a whole, what with RTSes and MMOs being made/planned for consoles as well.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 10:26:23 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
Sorry, but Fallout 3's confirmed for the X360.

God help us all.
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 04:43:43 AM »

Quote
Take a series of threads that arrose on Nintendo's absolutely idiotic forum regarding Metroid Prime 3. Suddenly, you see "fans" who are claiming that they'll boycott the game unless they get full online multi-player. My reaction is that, if you're asking for multi-player Metroid/Zelda/Final Fantasy, etc, you're really missing the point. 3 years ago, you'd never have seen this.


i guess thats why Final Fantasy XI recently had its 5 year anniversery. i personally think online multiplayer in games like metroid could be great. because online multiplayer and pvp can be two completely different things. in fact the possibilities there are blowing my mind right now.
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 06:06:44 AM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
Quote from: "Eusis"
Sorry, but Fallout 3's confirmed for the X360.

God help us all.

And the PS3.
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Ashton
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 06:50:11 AM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
On the flipside, PC gamers are furious to see their favorite series migrate over to the console world.

I should send them all some cheese to go with their whine.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 08:23:05 AM »

Thing is, gaming is a business whether you like it or not.  And any business always looks to expand its market to make more money.  And the gaming business needs to make more money to offset higher development and marketing costs for games.  

Hence why you're seeing platforms try to appeal to another platform's market base.  

And for all the people whining that gaming's becoming too convergent or too "mainstream" there are always developers and publishers who are appealing to the more "hardcore" (for lack of a better word) constituent.
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everluck
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 11:42:30 AM »

Wait- what?

So you're saying I should have to pay to upgrade my PC and buy a console if I want to play the games I want to play? Fuck that.

There's a reason this is happening. It's because people like it. It's because it's a success. You said it's "doing harm" but failed to mention what that harm was. Purists don't like it? Tough. They probably don't like the taste of cock in their mouths either, but that won't stop them from sucking Nintendo's massive conglomerate dick.

Series would stagnate if change never happened. GTA was a runaway success. If it didn't include a sandbox world that probably would have never happened. I don't like the series, but it took a pretty huge step forward as far as scale for console games go.

The more powerful consoles get, the more PC-like their games will become. Crossover's not a bad thing. Your favorite old games are still there. Go play them if you miss them. Old genres aren't being killed off. They're evolving, and there's a whole batch of new ones popping up as well. Diversity is good. Sequel after sequel without any sign of change is bad. Borrowing successful features is good. Saving my wallet $400 by not having to buy the latest video card is really good.

You're complaining about people complaining that Metroid doesn't have online multiplayer but should. Who cares? Even if it did, would you have to play it? That's totally optional. Why shouldn't it be there for those who want it? Nintendo's done a pretty abysmal job with their online capabilities so far. Why wouldn't they try and change that around? Online console gaming is kind of popular, you know.

And computer gamers are jealous that console games are getting features that started off on PC? Well gee, go figure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacewar
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 01:19:47 PM »

This reminds me of the time that the Amiga had the capability to do, like, SNES quality graphics in 1986, and getting all sorts of fun games, whereas the NES mostly had crappy arcade ports at that time.

I'm not really sure why.

In any case, expecting developers to pander to various paradigms based entirely on whether they're doing a console or PC game is dumb and will just lead to a lot of uncreative design (although really, I can't remember any recent games that I found to be massively creative, original, or completely new-feeling on the gameplay side).
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Eusis
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« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2007, 07:45:09 PM »

Quote from: "everluck"
You're complaining about people complaining that Metroid doesn't have online multiplayer but should. Who cares? Even if it did, would you have to play it? That's totally optional. Why shouldn't it be there for those who want it? Nintendo's done a pretty abysmal job with their online capabilities so far. Why wouldn't they try and change that around? Online console gaming is kind of popular, you know.

I think the issue here is mostly people demanding such a thing from it because it's an FPS, even though that isn't what the series has been about. It's like it's considered mandatory to have some multiplayer aspect in anything that's first person and not an RPG. Even then, Greg Kasavin joked about it in his Oblivion reviews, but there's probably some people who were seriously let down that it didn't have it.

There's also the factor too that wasting time to flesh out an online experience harms development of the single player game. Either trying to balance it in the first place to make a good online game too, or just dividing up the resources. A reversal of that can be seen in Warhawk, where they were going to make it single player, but ultimately decided it just wasn't a strong enough solo experience, so they're focusing exclusively on multiplayer to make it a better game in the end.
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2007, 10:03:13 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
There's also the factor too that wasting time to flesh out an online experience harms development of the single player game.


I've never played an online RPG that has a decent story. I don't think they exist.
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2007, 10:58:47 PM »

Quote from: "Lard"
Quote from: "Eusis"
There's also the factor too that wasting time to flesh out an online experience harms development of the single player game.


I've never played an online RPG that has a decent story. I don't think they exist.



i have,can you guess what it is?
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Eusis
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2007, 11:00:24 PM »

Online mode only or it doesn't count.

Seriously, is the story of PSU's online mode worth a damn? I'm morbidly curious.
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Lard
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2007, 11:08:30 PM »

Quote from: "Alisha"
Quote from: "Lard"
Quote from: "Eusis"
There's also the factor too that wasting time to flesh out an online experience harms development of the single player game.


I've never played an online RPG that has a decent story. I don't think they exist.



i have,can you guess what it is?


Honestly? No.

I can't imagine an online RPG with a good story.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2007, 11:17:02 PM »

Also yeah how does this have anything to do with a lack of PC/Console seperation? This is about putting multiplayer in Metroid Prime 3. If you want to make a post about how it IS rather stupid that people want multiplayer in every single goddamn thing now (Including solitaire, probably) then go ahead, but don't call it something it's not.
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