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Author Topic: My Favorite Part About Idiotic Fanboys.  (Read 11658 times)
Ashton
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« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2007, 09:20:56 PM »

Quote from: "Tria"
I hate how it is pretentious bullcrap that takes itself too seriously at times, and thinks it's changing the world with the themes it is teaching everyone.  And those themes are themes that are taught in what feels like every RPG I've ever played.  I especially hate the GOD AWFUL writing, and the equally terrible and over-the-top acting.

Everything about the game is unoriginal as well.  I've played the game through one and a half times (the last half was me attempting to make my way through it to give it a second chance, but I just couldn't with how bad it was).  Every character is a typical RPG archetype, too.  Now, I wouldn't mind that if the characters were actually interesting or better thought-out (See Star Ocean 2, which has pretty much the same cast of the three main characters).  The writing is what makes me hate them the most thought.

Don't even get me started on the music.  Motoi Sakuraba is my favorite composer, but even his less-than-mediocre songs were awful to listen to.

And the battle system....DEAR LORD the battle system.  Repetitititititive.  And not the fun kind of repetitive (like Shadow of the Colossus, or Wind Waker),  But the kind of repetitive that is so unchallenging and boring that it is super unfun.  I grew tired of the easy difficulty after about the first hour or so.  

Okay, I'll stop now.  Wait, one more.  The cutscene directing was TERRIBLE.  Okay, I'm done.

But Star Ocean 3 was guilty of all of this and more and you love it.
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« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2007, 09:52:08 PM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"

That's really all you needed to say. Puts things in a little better perspective for me.


Oh, and I don't really see how Chrono Trigger is "lighthearted."  To me, it was equally as dark, if not darker than FFVI.  

Quote from: "Leyviur"

But Star Ocean 3 was guilty of all of this and more and you love it.


I'm not gonna deny that Star Ocean 3 was completely original (though it was FAR more original and originally executed than ToS), but at least it had a more original theme and approach to "saving the world."  Also, I never found the battle system repetitive.  One portion I hate about ToS was button mashing.  And that's why I loved Star Ocean 3's.  The fury system prevented that.  Also, the game is SO much more challenging, and while the characters aren't fleshed out at all, at least they are interesting, and the writing is excellent in my opinion.  Some of the music is terrible, but some of the songs in the game represent some of the best of Sakuraba.  Something that can't be said about ToS.

Also, at least SO3 TRIED things that were original.  ToS didn't try to make a single thing original.  I definitely felt that the theme SO3 presented was far better and more meaningful than ToS's, too.
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Ashton
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« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2007, 10:02:51 PM »

Let me list some things about SO3:

-The music is some of Sakuraba's shittiest work. Not even the battle themes are good. It got so horrendous I put it on mute. It's that bad.

-The story was a pile of horseshit. Seriously, the whole 'Fayt's dad dying' to 'OMG 4D being revelation' to 'WALKING THROUGH A TV' and then the ending where they do the whole 'I THINK THEREFORE I AM' bullshit with a straight face - seriously, you don't get any more retarded than SO3's storyline. The characters were pretty much all archetypes. Fayt being the unwitting hero, Sophia the timid and cute heroine, Maria the tough girl, etc. I could go on, but you get the picture.

-SO3's battle system blew total chunks compared to ToS. At least in ToS you could chain together attacks and special attacks to create combos and stuff. In SO3? You had special attacks that could be assigned to weak/strong buttons that were pretty unchainable. Plus weak button attacks would be blocked easily and send your character into a state of dizziness, leaving him/her vulnerable. Oh, don't get me started on how if you try to attack, your character will charge at the enemy with no regards to what you try to make him/her do afterwards. The enemy's starting an attack while your character's running towards it? Too bad, you can't dodge it! Your character gets totally clobbered. The AI was also abysmal, with computer controlled characters standing there and doing NOTHING at times.

You're confusing original with good. Star Ocean 3 was more original than ToS but a totally shit game. ToS may not have been as original, but at least its gameplay didn't suck ass. And both games were facelessly serious about their respective themes, it's just that SO3's was so much more ridiculous.
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« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2007, 10:04:18 PM »

Game ranting aside and back to fanboys/fangirls...

I sometimes wonder... I'm just as guilty as all of you at pointing-and-laughing at/about and talking smack about "idiotic" or "obsessive" fanboys/girls but could I be just as guilty of "idiotic" or "obsessive" fanboyism about something and not quite realize it?  Could some of what I'm a "drooling" fanboy over not even be considered obsessive fanboyism and more "acceptable" for lack of a better word.

I can already name an "anti-fanboyism" I have that could really get me in trouble and make me sound like a ranting moron, but it's not one I'm willing to let go of because I've carefully formed such a vehement strong opinion about it.
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« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2007, 10:13:51 PM »

Personally, as I see it: "Tales of" past Phantasia has more or less been about refining the original idea tri-Ace created and Namco kept. Star Ocean (And most of tri-Ace's games, in fact) meanwhile has been about trying random new shit that is awesome and fun, but never comes out quite right. There's just so many stupid issues I see with SO3, but I can't deny the raw amount of /fun/ I had with the game. VP1 and 2 are probably the most successfully crafted games of theirs, and possibly RS too.

Speaking of Radiata Stories, it looks like the developers went on to tri-Crescendo or whatever and are developing Eternal Sonata. I swear I saw somewhere that they both share the same director, ala SMRPG and the first M&L.

... Wow, you're one of about 5 people who doesn't like Chrono Trigger.
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Tria
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« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2007, 11:00:50 PM »

Quote from: "Leyviur"
Let me list some things about SO3:

-The music is some of Sakuraba's shittiest work. Not even the battle themes are good. It got so horrendous I put it on mute. It's that bad.

-The story was a pile of horseshit. Seriously, the whole 'Fayt's dad dying' to 'OMG 4D being revelation' to 'WALKING THROUGH A TV' and then the ending where they do the whole 'I THINK THEREFORE I AM' bullshit with a straight face - seriously, you don't get any more retarded than SO3's storyline. The characters were pretty much all archetypes. Fayt being the unwitting hero, Sophia the timid and cute heroine, Maria the tough girl, etc. I could go on, but you get the picture.

-SO3's battle system blew total chunks compared to ToS. At least in ToS you could chain together attacks and special attacks to create combos and stuff. In SO3? You had special attacks that could be assigned to weak/strong buttons that were pretty unchainable. Plus weak button attacks would be blocked easily and send your character into a state of dizziness, leaving him/her vulnerable. Oh, don't get me started on how if you try to attack, your character will charge at the enemy with no regards to what you try to make him/her do afterwards. The enemy's starting an attack while your character's running towards it? Too bad, you can't dodge it! Your character gets totally clobbered. The AI was also abysmal, with computer controlled characters standing there and doing NOTHING at times.

You're confusing original with good. Star Ocean 3 was more original than ToS but a totally shit game. ToS may not have been as original, but at least its gameplay didn't suck ass. And both games were facelessly serious about their respective themes, it's just that SO3's was so much more ridiculous.


Or maybe I'm confusing good with MY OPINION.  You know, you come off as saying your opinion about SO3 is right, and basically you're ripping me apart for liking a game you didn't, and still hating ToS.  Well news to you Timmy Turnbuckles, I DON'T CARE.  

And just because I want to say it in terms of continuing a fun like argument.  I personally found much of the music to be fantastic, the battle system very good (though with minor glitches, which is typical tri-Ace), and I found Fayt to be one of the more original heroes of the new millenium.  Why do I find him more original?  Because he is nice, smart, and not annoying and cocky.  He is also really laidback.  Something that the typical RPG hero archetype lacks.  

And I feel that ToS has one of the worst Real-Time battle systems since Drakkhen.  Yes, DRAKKHEN.  I'd rather masturbate with sandpaper than take a crack at playing ToS's battle system again.  I could smash the A button on my controller without the game on, and it would still be more challenging.  I've even tried the so-called "hardest battle" in ToS on Mania (Abyssion), yet I still didn't even come close to dying.  The same thing was happening.  "Attack...Attack...Attack...Jump over him....Attack Attack Attack REPEAT".  It never ended, and it was longer than necessary.  In fact, it went on for so long, that even after I beat him, I kept pressing A because I lost all interest in whether or not I beat him or not.  So I hadn't realized it.  I think I used a special attack in ToS about once, and that was at the beginning to test what it was like.  But I later realized, "Wait, I can get through this blindfolded with just the A button."  I could eat my Tales of Symphonia discs, crap them out, put them in my Gamecube, and they'd still play the same.

But WAIT.  This is ALL opinion.  Wow, what a concept.  

Oh, and to lighten things up a bit, 50% of the time, I hate SO3.  It's one of those games that I change my opinion about 50% of the time.  Sometimes I absolutely adore it, sometimes I absolutely hate it.  Tomorrow, I'll probably come back to this thread and completely detach all the good things I've said about it (except for Fayt and some of the music, which is always God in my book). xP

To Eusis:

tri-Crescendo was made in 1999 (when the sound programmer from tri-Ace left), and has developed the sound and such for all tri-Ace games since then, and developed the sound and battle systems for Baten Kaitos I & II.  They have been a solo company for a while now.  And I can tell that Eternal Sonata has some influence from tri-Ace in there (from what I've played, read, and seen), so I personally can't wait to try out their first full game. =D
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« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2007, 11:06:05 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
... Wow, you're one of about 5 people who doesn't like Chrono Trigger.

Actually, last I counted, there were 3...

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« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2007, 11:11:03 PM »

Amusingly enough, I was thinking of saying 3 in the first place, but nah, I know there must've been at least 2 others who weren't too fond of it that I've seen, maybe there's two more somewhere out there in the world.

Fayt original?
Code:
Well I guess it's not every day we see a character being thankful his school got blown up and whatnot.
As for Sakuraba's music, seriously. Let's not call either of them his worst, there's still Tales of Eternia, which has, uhhh, one likeable tune, and the rest are either generic Sakuraba, /or worse/. I'm convinced the battle song for Celestia is one of the worst I've ever heard in a video game.

We could go on and on though I think with SO versus Tales of. Maybe we should have a separate topic for it, it'll be 2004 all over again! Though this one's fitting in its own way.

Edit: Blew off coding initially thanks to Ash not giving a crap, but decided to be safe than sorry. Even though it's not really a big deal and just looks more important than it really is.
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AJR
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« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2007, 11:17:00 PM »

You should probably put your rant on SO3's story in code tags Leyviur, since you do discuss the absurdity of the big plot twist, and the ending.
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« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2007, 11:27:15 PM »

Quote from: "Tria"
You know, you come off as saying your opinion about SO3 is right, and basically you're ripping me apart for liking a game you didn't, and still hating ToS.  Well news to you Timmy Turnbuckles, I DON'T CARE.

I've done no such thing. I was calling into question your apparent double standard, considering SO3 and ToS share a humongous chunk of the same flaws. Nowhere in my post does it contain any sarcastic remarks, assertations that my opinion is correct and yours is wrong, or attacks on your person or personal opinion, only point by point statements about how ToS and SO3 share nearly the exact same flaws. The only one attacking people here, ironically, is you.
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« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2007, 11:35:35 PM »

Quote from: "Leyviur"

I've done no such thing. I was calling into question your apparent double standard, considering SO3 and ToS share a humongous chunk of the same flaws. Nowhere in my post does it contain any sarcastic remarks, assertations that my opinion is correct and yours is wrong, or attacks on your person or personal opinion, only point by point statements about how ToS and SO3 share nearly the exact same flaws. The only one attacking people here, ironically, is you.


Mind telling me how you're not saying you think your opinion is right again?  Because, at least to me, that sounds like you're saying that your opinion is right.  Lasttime I checked, flaws found in games tend to be based on the gamer's "opinion."  And you're basically saying the flaws in the two games are fact, when, in true form, they are nothing more than mere opinion.  Like, for instance, I find very few of the same flaws in the two games that you so valiantly claim are in there.  I find each game has different flaws.  Yet you find them to have the same "humongous flaws" in both.  Fine, but don't claim that those flaws are factual, because they aren't.

That's the fun part about opinion.  The amount of diversity in them, and how people can find different things to like and hate about each thing.  There are no true flaws in one thing.  What one may find ugly, another may find the opposite.  This is one of those cases.
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« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2007, 11:54:43 PM »

TOS - sucks.

Tales games suck all around.

So did SO3.

Radiata Stories sucked the most. Couldn't even be bothered to get past the first mission. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too childish for me.

Chrono Trigger doesn't suck. But it's one of those games that's way overrated. Like Final Fantasy 7 and Zelda OOT

I finally played it last fall but once Chrono died.....i just couldn't be bothered to finish it.
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« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2007, 12:36:00 AM »

Quote from: "Tria"
There are no true flaws in one thing.

I'm calling bullshit. There is a degree of objectiveness in just about everything, where something's either good or bad, and some things just suck ass. Case in point, Big Rigs. If you were to say 'it's just your opinion that game is trash' about that, well... You'd be either completely insane or an idiot, that simple. A game that fails to have what is advertised in it, is riddled with bugs to the point that one level /simply does not work/, utterly violates the laws of physics, and plain does not work is simply crap. You only play it to see and take some perverse joy in how horribly bad it is. The food analogy can apply to this too, as something could be burnt to the point it's just a lump of charcoal or is otherwise rendered foul. It's an extreme example, and admittedly not something that actually applies to ToS or SO3, but just as well there are things that games can do that's simply bad. A cheap shot you can't avoid is bad design, there's no opinion to be discussed on that particular point, and similar goes to when an AI simply fails to work or a game is too vague for you to know what the hell to do.

Similarly, while I personally can't recall many flaws that SO3 or ToS shared, the closest being they both had Sakuraba OSTs of similar quality, the games being similar in certain facets would just be fact. Sharing similar music is a fact, whether that music is good or not is a matter of opinion. The battle systems both being action packed with AI controlled companions is also something they both share.

Lard: ... Yeah, that's why I said like, not love. I can see how it can be considered overrated, and I kinda think it's probably one of those games inflated to a legendary status that, regardless of how good it really is, it simply can not match what one might expect from all the praise for years upon years. Though it probably doesn't help if you're playing the PSX version with atrocious load times.
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« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2007, 12:48:32 AM »

In response to this entire topic, I have some ideas I feel like posting.

1) Opinion formation is largely arbitrary.

2) The inherent want to be contrary is a major component of opinion formation.

3) Things like buyer's remorse and an unwillingness to spend too much money effect opinion formation, to the extent that if a game is expensive and even slightly dissapointing, the player will hate it and be vocal about their hate for it as 'revenge' against having spent money.

4) People DO seem to like disliking games more than liking them.

5) Or rather, it is easier to dislike the majority of games one plays so that they don't feel the obligation to devote time to more than a select few.

6) As far as opinions go, everyone wants to be right.

7) Also as far as opinions go, everyone will generally try to be the biggest dick they can in as many ways possible in order to fulfill point 6.
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« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2007, 01:05:42 AM »

Quote from: "Tria"
YELLING


My opinion is that you seem to care a little too much either way.

More opinions:

I liked Tales of Symphonia and Star Ocean 3, but for different reasons, neither really involving the story. As far as gameplay, I liked ToS more, but as far as world interaction, SO3 wins . . . even though it could have done a hell of a lot better.

I don't get all the love for CT. Yeah, I understand it was revolutionary and all for its time, but from all the times I've tried to play it, it never really impressed me. But maybe this was because I didn't actually play the game until 2000 or so.

Chrono Cross, on the other hand, I loved, much to most of my friends' chagrin. Yeah, the characters were pretty terrible, but I loved the setting and the main story. The fact that the game was set in an archipelago might have been the main thing that won me over, since I just happen to be drawn to that type of setting (possibly also why I liked Suikoden IV).

My point is that you're all retards for disagreeing with me.







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