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Author Topic: GameIndustry.biz writer rips into Manhunt 2  (Read 8332 times)
Eusis
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« on: June 24, 2007, 12:56:33 AM »

GameIndustry link here.

I'm putting it here rather than Misc. games because I consider it more about the, well, Game Industry more than simply the game itself. I'm sure everyone's familiar by now with the basic story behind this, but for those who haven't heard: Manhunt 2 effectively was banned in the UK thanks to the board refusing to rate it, the ESRB more or less did the same for American consoles by rating it AO, and it seems every other nation has either review boards or politicians trying to make sure it doesn't surface. Rockstar's put the game on hold, to edit it down or appeal for a re-evaluation or whatever.

Personally, I think it's arguably a good thing if this game just vanished completely. It's likely crap, but in the offchance it's a genuinely fantastic game, it might be worth losing this one to make all the nutso politicians, watchdogs, and whatnot out there finally shut up and quit attacking the industry for every little thing, or at least calming down a bit. Christ, I saw a headline where Jack Thompson was /praising/ the ESRB. On the other hand, there is the possibility of a chilling effect just from this game's rating... But most likely this is just a public case of what has happened frequently with other games/publishers but been kept secret from the rest of the world, so I wouldn't be TOO worried.

Ofcourse, the game's probably going to come out anyway toned down and M friendly, but we'll just have to wait and see if it still causes everyone to go nuts.
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Zebulun
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2007, 02:35:35 AM »

Good for them. As we all know, games are nothing more than murder simulators......

Anyway this doesn't bother me. Games like Manhunt really aren't my cup of tea. So if a game were to fall to the rating boards, this one might as well be our pariah.
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Lard
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2007, 03:12:22 AM »

No, it's not worth it.

All this is going to do is give the nutso politicians and people like Jack Thompson a foothold into having more leverage when banning games.

They succeeded once, so it's not going to shut them up. It's going to make them more confident, shouting longer and louder about every little thing.

Even if this isn't your "cup of tea", it's still worth fighting censorship.

Saying "It doesn't look interesting to me, so it's alright if it's banned" is a fucking copout - because the next thing you know, somebody is saying it's okay that something *you're* interested in is banned.

I'm actually pretty nervous about Persona 3. Kids shooting themselves in the head to summon demons? They'll have a field day with it.
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Sensei Phoenix
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2007, 10:32:04 AM »

Y'know, here's an idea. Rather than making this an issue of "freedom vs. censorship" why not take a stand as a gamer and say, hey, I recognize that Rockstar is just trying to go over the edge to get media attention, and I'm not gonna fall into their trap. Most likely this game is going to be piss-poor and I doubt any of us except the most extreme or immature would appreciate the over-the-top violence aspect of it.

Thing is, when gamers get up and start defending games like this as legitimate freedom of expression, not only are they fooling themselves into believing that the company actually is making an attempt at artistic expression, but they're also giving the community's detractors more evidence that gamers simply want violence and gore.

So let's decry this as a shitty game that we aren't going to buy, rather than as a bastion of free speech.
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Ashton
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2007, 10:49:44 AM »

I actually was going to play it. It sounded like good stress relief.
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2007, 10:50:43 AM »

Then which are you, extreme or immature? :P
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Lard
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2007, 11:39:59 AM »

Quote from: "Sensei Phoenix"
Y'know, here's an idea. Rather than making this an issue of "freedom vs. censorship" why not take a stand as a gamer and say, hey, I recognize that Rockstar is just trying to go over the edge to get media attention, and I'm not gonna fall into their trap.

So let's decry this as a shitty game that we aren't going to buy, rather than as a bastion of free speech.


Then release it and let it bomb. Saying it's okay to censor it is just giving them all the attention they want. If the game sucks, word of mouth will spread quickly. Whether you like it or not, it *is* an issue of freedom vs. censorship now.
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Ashton
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2007, 11:41:50 AM »

Quote from: "The Darkrider"
Then which are you, extreme or immature? :P

I'M GONNA KILL YOU.
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Lord Scottish
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2007, 12:17:47 PM »

Quote from: "Zebulun"
Good for them. As we all know, games are nothing more than murder simulators......

Anyway this doesn't bother me. Games like Manhunt really aren't my cup of tea. So if a game were to fall to the rating boards, this one might as well be our pariah.


"They came for the Jews, and I didn't protest because I wasn't a Jew..."

It's a slippery slope. We have to fight this.
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Sensei Phoenix
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2007, 01:46:46 PM »

Quote
Then release it and let it bomb. Saying it's okay to censor it is just giving them all the attention they want. If the game sucks, word of mouth will spread quickly. Whether you like it or not, it *is* an issue of freedom vs. censorship now.


Didn't advocate censorship. Neither did the ESRB. I'd just like the gaming community not to choose something like this to be the bulwark of a free speech campaign. Let the lawyers fight it out, but don't become a pawn for Rockstar Games or an example for the Jack Thompsons of the world.
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Lard
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2007, 01:48:46 PM »

Saying "it probably sucks - let it be banned" is advocating censorship - not matter how you try and spin it.
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Eusis
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2007, 02:57:45 PM »

Quote from: "Leyviur"
Quote from: "The Darkrider"
Then which are you, extreme or immature? :P

I'M GONNA KILL YOU.

Immature. Wait, maybe it's both? Fuck, I don't know.

Honestly, I'm more of the mindset for free speech and expression that as long as it doesn't actually harm anyone (see: child porn and the whole yelling fire thing), then fine, whatever, do it. Thing is, you try something like this at a sensitive time, and we can be facing REAL censorship, not just industry pressure censorship. The envelope needs to be gradually pushed against, you don't go exercising with 10 pound dumbbells to pressing 200 pounds afterall. Besides, R* can technically release this as an AO PC title, and for all I know may intend that for extra cash a few monthes from now. Sell it at a few retailers, or skip the nonsense and go for direct 2 drive and the like.

Yeah, I think the game will be crap, but I noted in my first post that even if it's great, it might be worth letting off just to make the constant industry hazing let up. I also dare suggest that, rather than letting the groups pressure the industry more, it would give them an example to go 'see, we're responsible, now shut up'. The GTA:SA rerating though, now THAT makes it look like the ESRB can be pressured.
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everluck
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2007, 04:07:46 PM »

I get an uneasy feeling when I hear about a game where you act out the motions of ripping off somebody's balls with a pair of pliers.

I can't say this bothers me. Manhunt 2 seemed to be more an exercise in violence than anything else. I appreciate games as art, not games as ultra-violent exhibition.
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Lard
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2007, 04:13:58 PM »

You can't go around saying "one kind of censorship is okay and another isn't."

Games are games.

Just because *you* don't like the idea does *not* make it okay to be banned.

It should bother you, because the last thing we need is fuckers like Jack Thompson getting a foothold in the ESRB
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Eusis
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2007, 04:19:25 PM »

And if they released the game and legislature actually passes that puts rules on what games may/may not be, permanently stunting the growth of the industry? In an ideal world, we wouldn't be worrying about stuff this stupid every damn time a new medium surfaced. On the other hand, an ideal world probably wouldn't have given any inspiration for stuff like this.

Edit: And really, I was most worried about the Wii being differentiated from the rest. If that got an AO while the other versions got an M, then that's basically the ESRB saying 'nope, you're the kid friendly console, whether you want to stay that way or not.'
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