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Author Topic: GameIndustry.biz writer rips into Manhunt 2  (Read 8224 times)
Sensei Phoenix
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« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2007, 12:50:21 PM »

And we still have obscenity laws in the US that we have to abide by. If MH2 fell under the aegis of the obscenity laws (which, btw, don't just cover nudity, no pun intended, but also acts of gratuitous violence and sadism), then the gov. would have every right to ban it, as it's a law that the supreme court determined to be constitutionally valid.

I think the bottom line here is that this game is NOT going to be banned in the US, and so there is no threat to free speech. All its getting is an AO rating, which doesn't prohibit its sale. What individual retailers decide to do about it is something you have to take up with them

So now that freedom of expression isn't an issue, can we focus more on taking it upon ourselves, voluntarily, to not give this game any more attention than it's already getting?
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Eusis
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« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2007, 03:11:18 PM »

I want to point out a few things.

The AO rating /is/ effectively a ban for console games. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft won't have any part with those games. I think it's a problem that the rating's more or less relegated to porn and isn't flexed as well as it could be because the mindset of pre-emptively 'banning' it, and no attempt to learn from the movie industry in that regard. I suppose even if they did divide the rating or whatever though, the most surefire way to keep this stuff out of the hands of kids is still to just not carry it. Ah well. At any rate, it's fully within the rights of all involved there to not allow this game on consoles, so arguing first amendment rights for that is like trying to argue against a ban on a forum because it violates the first amendment. The admins here and elsewhere really don't give a crap, and legally don't have to either.

The neckhole rape/titty hat/microwaved cat stuff is from a joke post on Neogaf that has since spread around and been taken seriously. Castration by wirecutters, however, sounds like it's really there - maybe that caused the AO rating? The GameSpot preview said their demo level was named 'sexual deviants' and took place in a fetish club, so those two things may have caused the AO.

Regardless of my stance on the game, I do strongly feel that if someone wants to play it, at least someone that's an adult, then they should be allowed to... And that doesn't make it worth condemning them for it either. I don't have much interest in it, but just because someone wants to play it doesn't instantly make them immature or whatever. Besides, such logic can be applied to way too much, and in someone's viewpoint we're all immature just for playing video games of any kind or watching whatever.

While I think it would probably be best for the industry that this be surrendered, it IS a valid point that it might not help at all and simply make things worse in the long run. There's really no way of knowing, especially since I think it's inevitable that Rockstar will just tone it down to an M then release it, they've simply spent too much time/money to toss it aside and it's not like they're EA buying the Thrill Kill publisher/developer where they didn't spend a dime on the game's development, or are in a bad situation to begin with. However, what really matter are the politicians - the watchdogs are still screaming over movies and all, but they're being ignored more or less as far as I can tell. At worst, it's a situation a lot less sensitive than the one games are in. Alternatively, Manhunt 2 could've simply come at a time when it's irrelevant - the NY game bill simply kept on rolling, regardless of Manhunt 2's state.

Anyways, this argument just seems to repeat itself regardless of where it is, so I may just step out of it entirely unless I see something really worth commenting on. I've more or less said everything I wanted to anyway.

Edit: Just some typo and grammar fixes, nothing big.
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Lard
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« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2007, 04:17:28 PM »

Personally, I think TT should set up their own online distribution system.

Advertise it, package and sell it themselves, circumventing places like EB altogether.

At least with the AO version.

Somebody who orders by credit card can have their DOB checked before they complete the order.
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Eusis
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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2007, 07:49:58 PM »

Ok, I think this would just wind up creating a duplicate topic more or less, so I'm putting it in here to go with the Manhunt 2 discussion. ESRB starts cracking down on violent video game trailers.

That bugs me... Well, for internet trailers anyway. I suppose it's easy to get past the age thing, but then what's the fucking point? If you ask me, either something offensive needs to be behind that barrier, or the barrier need not be there whatsoever. Company sites for alcoholic drinks seem to have the same problem, so I guess it's just people being weird period. I suppose you'd have to have a surefire way to block people from seeing content they shouldn't, and that really doesn't exist. Activision tried that... And it was demanding your credit card number. That's just ridiculous, and seems to have been long dropped. Of course, I fully understand these restrictions for commercials on TV, so that's not an issue.
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Zebulun
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« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2007, 09:29:10 PM »

Now that bothers me.

I wasn't aware that the ESRB had control of video game trailers.
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Eusis
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« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2007, 09:43:26 PM »

I knew about it for awhile, I hear they cracked down on a trailer of Samurai Western or whatever the Atlus game was for having decapitation. But it kinda bugs me out of principle, AND I didn't know the extreme it went to. I wonder if this might be partially to blame for the bullshit CGI videos I keep seeing on XBL rather than actual gameplay. Let's face it, most games are violent in nature, and some degree will need to be shown off for a proper representation of the product. Simply showing off the story isn't going to matter to me usually, I either don't care about the story, or care enough that I don't want even a semblance of a spoiler.

The MPAA probably has a similar level of control over their trailers, but those are usually/always shown before another movie. It's wiser to make a one size fits all trailer, and what might not bug one person can bug another. I don't feel this level of copying is as relevant to video games, and is just insulting when you ask for our age only to show nothing offensive anyway.
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Lard
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« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2007, 11:57:51 AM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
I knew about it for awhile, I hear they cracked down on a trailer of Samurai Western or whatever the Atlus game was for having decapitation.


That's strange - Samurai Western doesn't have decapitation.
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Eusis
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« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2007, 05:07:27 AM »

Huh. Well, whatever, it did something that pissed off the ESRB and tell Atlus to take it down.

NY times says that R rated movies are gorier than Manhunt 2. Well, that figures. I wonder if it's a creep on the R ratings though due to NC-17 movies being effectively banned, or if the ESRB's just plain stingier. Alternatively: Bias against Rockstar. Wouldn't surprise me anyway.

Either way... Mm. On one hand, it annoys me that games are being held back, so even if we get a game that really has a point to an extreme level of violence it might have to be censored thanks to the ESRB and that there's more or less no way of releasing it in such a state on consoles. On the other hand, this just furthers my belief that /both/ of them need to make two different NC-17 type ratings. The movie example so that stuff like Saw and Hostel get separated from relatively tame stuff like the Matrix, and AO so that games aren't held back because 'omg teh pr0n rating!'
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2007, 08:43:00 PM »

Eusis... no offense, but I find it sort of funny that you're having a debate about maturity with a guy who's icon is a picture of Kurby drinking urine.
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« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2007, 09:30:03 PM »

Quote from: "Lard"
Quote from: "Eusis"
I knew about it for awhile, I hear they cracked down on a trailer of Samurai Western or whatever the Atlus game was for having decapitation.


That's strange - Samurai Western doesn't have decapitation.


I don't know what version of Samurai Western you played, but I distinctly remember being able to take the top quarter or so of a person's body off in the berserk mode.  Sure, it was the head AND an arm, but that's still decapitation.
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Lard
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« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2007, 12:03:34 PM »

Quote from: "KeeperX"

I don't know what version of Samurai Western you played, but I distinctly remember being able to take the top quarter or so of a person's body off in the berserk mode.  Sure, it was the head AND an arm, but that's still decapitation.


Ah I can't honestly remember. I remember blood spurting out of the guys but that's about it. Not a game that really stays in your memory.

Prime - :P
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