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Author Topic: is nintendo leaving some of us behind?  (Read 3886 times)
Alisha
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« on: July 14, 2007, 03:39:48 AM »

http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/07/13/172247.shtml

be sure to read some of the comments too.
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 03:50:47 AM »

"Leaving behind"? What the hell are they talking about? Nintendo by definition is the producer of user-friendly games. That doesn't mean the games are easy to beat, just easy to learn and accessible to just about everyone. That is nearly universal to Nintendo products, be it hardware or software. Even Zelda, which can be taken as their "hardcore" appeal is not difficult to get into. It has no complicated stats, everything is icon-driven, and it's not particularly difficult to play. Yes there is a level of challenge involved, but that goes for any game.

The article's a whole lotta bullshit. Nintendo isn't changing, it's always been this way.
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2007, 04:07:57 AM »

Quote from: "Hidoshi"
"Leaving behind"? What the hell are they talking about? Nintendo by definition is the producer of user-friendly games.


The article was questioning whether or not Nintendo would leave "hardcore" gamers behind, not people who want user-friendly games. Hardcore gamers are down with shitty games that are hard as hell to understand.

Example -- I really, really like SaGa Frontier.

Of course, it's a waste-of-time article. Wii will have a little bit of everything for everyone. I wouldn't exactly call Zelda games "hardcore" though...it's not like it's some underground hit or anything.

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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 04:24:41 AM »

Oh no, I got the point. I'm saying -- Nintendo has NEVER been about the 'hardcore', so any expectation that they should be is ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to spout out the theory that they're "leaving the hardcore behind" because of that fact.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 04:37:07 AM »

Hardcore, Hardcore, Hardcore, Corehard, Blowhard, Hard Gore...

...what iz this "hardcore" that you speak of?
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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 04:51:30 AM »

I didn't read the slashdot responses, kinda afraid to given how stuff like MP3 being offline only was reacted to, and I think Mark's being a bit overly defensive of Nintendo really. They really are aiming more at a casual audience even if they've never really been into making FPSes staring bald space marines or anything. That's kinda beside the point though.

Whether Zelda really is much of a hardcore experience or not, it seems to be perceived as such by those that aren't at least somewhat serious about gaming. Twilight Princess didn't perform hotly in Japan, and Time Magazine just kinda scoffed at it in favor of Wii Sports. Phantom Hourglass apparently did quite a bit to make it more accessible as the NextGen article outlined, and it's working wonderfully over there. Games are being catered more to a specific audience, and controls are definitely getting too confounding these days. While this may not be as important as I think, and I'm not even sure Super Mario Galaxy and Phantom Hourglass apply to this, I do think it's necessary to tear something down then rebuild it. Sometimes you just have to start over and create something new and better, can you keep making additions to an old house for forever?

Applicable to Phantom Hourglass or not, I do think we may need these games. Gaming is becoming bigger and bigger in the world, but at the same time it seems to be focusing on a specific audience, namely those that dig games like Halo, Madden, and the countless WWII games being made. But if the audience is broadened, I think we will wind up seeing a greater variety of games in the end, especially with games like Phantom Hourglass that could serve as stepping stones to more serious stuff. Just look at the install base for the PS2 as an example, that was huge, and as a result we got more games that are odd and don't really have a mainstream appeal, like Chulip or Steambot Chronicles. If it expands and can become far greater, then we will probably see more oddball and unique games, and it's even possible that those that prefer a more hardcore experience will more likely be satisfied.

I just kinda rambled there. I'll probably say more stuff later.
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 05:32:26 AM »

"Aonuma says that judging by Japanese sales so far, accessible 'stream-lined play has been effective,' but he wants to see how Western audiences react to the new Zelda before making a final decision on future games' difficulty levels"

This strikes me as harkening back to the days when we got a dumbed down version of Final Fantasy II because the Japanese version was "too hard" for western gamers.
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 05:38:20 AM »

Quote from: "Lard"
This strikes me as harkening back to the days when we got a dumbed down version of Final Fantasy II because the Japanese version was "too hard" for western gamers.

IV, and II proper isn't something I want to touch.

Edit: Anyways, it was considered that American console gamers couldn't handle a tough RPG, also why we lost FFV at the time. Meanwhile, stuff like Castlevania and Contra had it's difficult jacked up so that people renting it couldn't beat it and would ultimately just buy the games.
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 05:46:30 AM »

Quote from: "Hidoshi"
Oh no, I got the point. I'm saying -- Nintendo has NEVER been about the 'hardcore' ...

Wrong. SNES days. Pretty much any RPG back then were for the hardcore and the SNES had most of them. Besides, what console making company is 'about' the hardcore? They all want to attract as many consumers as possible. The question here is if Nintendo will be trying to attract even more customers at the cost of alienating the more devoted of gamers? Looks like the answer's 'yes' to me.
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 06:03:12 AM »

To be fair, how many did Nintendo themselves release? There's Super Mario RPG, Earthbound, in japan the FE titles, and depending on how you view things the Zelda games. However, that's pretty much all I can think of, it's 3rd parties that had hardons for RPGs.
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 10:47:02 AM »

Quote from: "Leyviur"
The question here is if Nintendo will be trying to attract even more customers at the cost of alienating the more devoted of gamers? Looks like the answer's 'yes' to me.


I agree, for the most part.  Armageddon must be nigh. :P

I really do think it's still too early to call it, though.  But if there still isn't much to choose from in six months besides a bunch of party games and minigame collections, this'll join the Virtual Boy as shit from Nintendo that I can't be bothered to own.
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 04:34:43 PM »

Quote from: "Leyviur"
Quote from: "Hidoshi"
Oh no, I got the point. I'm saying -- Nintendo has NEVER been about the 'hardcore' ...

Wrong. SNES days. Pretty much any RPG back then were for the hardcore and the SNES had most of them. Besides, what console making company is 'about' the hardcore? They all want to attract as many consumers as possible. The question here is if Nintendo will be trying to attract even more customers at the cost of alienating the more devoted of gamers? Looks like the answer's 'yes' to me.


I don't think you can chalk that up to being 'hardcore'. Nintendo was pretty much the company you had to manufacture for at the time. Sega had come up in the ranks yes, but nonetheless Nintendo's popularity got them the lion's share of everything. Companies like Square and Enix were the largest RPG manufacturers and had already been onboard with Nintendo since the NES. Due to brand loyalty and Sega being the relative newcomer/underdog, it wasn't as if they were going to jump ship.

If anything, it may be said that Sega was trying to appeal to the hardcore, given its penchant for creating its own RPGs like Phantasy Star and Shining Force.

Nintendo has never been hardcore-focused. Not in the days of the NES, SNES, N64, NGC, or even now. Whatever hardcore audience they may have fostered at any given time was a byproduct of their larger market appeal, not a consciously intended audience.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 04:40:14 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
Edit: Anyways, it was considered that American console gamers couldn't handle a tough RPG, also why we lost FFV at the time. Meanwhile, stuff like Castlevania and Contra had it's difficult jacked up so that people renting it couldn't beat it and would ultimately just buy the games.


Wasn't FFV cut from US release because the translation job dragged on for so long that FF6 was almost done by that time? That's what I had heard. I don't think it had anything to do with difficulty, or even how the game would have been percieved in the US (I think it would have flopped here, myself).

But yeah, I think there's a point there. Difficulty that requires time and thought was typically dumbed down in the US, where as speed and trigger-happy-ness was typically boosted.
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Alisha
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 12:36:10 AM »

Quote from: "The Darkrider"
Quote from: "Leyviur"
The question here is if Nintendo will be trying to attract even more customers at the cost of alienating the more devoted of gamers? Looks like the answer's 'yes' to me.


I agree, for the most part.  Armageddon must be nigh. :P

I really do think it's still too early to call it, though.  But if there still isn't much to choose from in six months besides a bunch of party games and minigame collections, this'll join the Virtual Boy as shit from Nintendo that I can't be bothered to own.


agreed. also while sega did create stuff like phantasy star and shining force. nintendo had starfox and metroid. if those aren't somewhat hardcore i dont know is.
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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 02:33:24 AM »

The company you should all be mad at is Rare.

Everything they made for SNES and N64 besides Perfect Dark = Amazing.

Perfect Dark = Better-than-sex awesome.

Since Microsoft gobbled them up, they released a prequel to Perfect Dark for the 360 that sucked giant balls.

At least when Square ditched Nintendo they came out with FF7.
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