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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: A great idea for an RPG  (Read 1740 times)
Willy Elektrix
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« on: July 30, 2007, 08:19:54 PM »

Perhaps this is the wrong section of this forum to talk about this but I recently had an excellent idea for an RPG. Sigma Star Saga combined the horizontal shooter format with RPG statistics and this was pretty cool (despite some balancing flaws). So, check this out. How about a game that combines arena-shooter style combat (ala Robotron) with a Rouge-style RPG format.

You would wander from room to room in a giant structure (it could be randomly generated, but doesn't have to be) each of which is filled with clusters of enemies. Combat would be handled in typical dual-joystick arena-style fashion with lots of bullet dodging and avoiding getting cornered, etc. Except you would level up and gain statistics, accumulate equipment and treasure, and search for rare drops.

It would have to have consistently interesting enemy designs to keep it fun. The mind controlling enemies and tank-spawners from Robtron are a good start, but it would be a lot of work to keep coming up with new and different enemy attacks and formations through a 20-30 hour long game.

It would be like Robotron the Rouge-like, but with dungeon design, actual room structure, and a statistical component. I would die for that shit.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 09:47:33 PM »

I can see what you'r saying as far as the combat goes, but I doubt that would work. Real time doesn't always work well withe roguelikes. Something actiony in the manner of robotron, I believe, would quite diminish the strategic aspects.

Also, I think you're sort of misunderstanding how roguelikes work. Hunting for "rare drops" isn't the point, for one thing. Randomized dungeons, while almost mandatory, are also not the only thing that matters.

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/column_at_play/ <- You'd do well reading all of this.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2007, 08:12:44 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
I can see what you'r saying as far as the combat goes, but I doubt that would work. Real time doesn't always work well withe roguelikes. Something actiony in the manner of robotron, I believe, would quite diminish the strategic aspects.

Also, I think you're sort of misunderstanding how roguelikes work. Hunting for "rare drops" isn't the point, for one thing. Randomized dungeons, while almost mandatory, are also not the only thing that matters.

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/column_at_play/ <- You'd do well reading all of this.


To me, the Rouge-like genre is all about a stripped down narrative with game play focusing mostly on dungeon exploration and survival (although not necessarily survival due to combat). Present in Rogue-like games are simulation aspects, rather than just straight combat. Also, most important to the genre is how expandable it is. Games have huge communities because items, monsters, dungeons, classes, races, and game play features can easily be added (especially sense the game's are open source).

Although, the sense of randomization (and also, rare items and monsters) is not "the point" it is defnitely helps to make Rogue games so replayable. Your hang up with the Robotron Rogue seems to be that the action-based game play would remove much of the challenge of resource management (which is what most RPGs, particularily Rogue really are all about). I'm not so sure that it would. The action elements would replace the luck elements in resolving combat. It could still be a resource management challenge.

To me, the combat system is the least defining part of a Rogue-like, so why couldn't we just use a combat system based around Robotron? Seems like a good time to me. In the case of the Robotron Rogue, combat modifiers would be suited to the action-based game play (faster rate of fire, larger blast radius's, etc.), but, again, combat modifiers are only one part of the simulation aspect.

That article states that Rogue is solely about the interaction of players and AI routines in a dungeon environment. Which, is interesting, but I'm not sure I really get into. For instance, my favorite Rogue-like, Mission Mainframe doesn't even have AI for movement. Enemies are all stationary and only perform attacks when you engage them.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2007, 10:16:13 PM »

Well, my hang up's more that I just really don't like Robotron much.

Also, I meant the blog as a whole, not just that single article.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2007, 10:58:36 PM »

Yeah, I'm going through the blog. His ideas about what defines the genre are pretty interesting. I'm surprised I've never seen this before.

...And I thought I knew something about Rogue, but apparently not.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2007, 11:14:43 PM »

I never actually realized the importance of the 'learning item properties' thing in regards to unknown items, but it's what seperates Nethack from PSO. That's the sort of randomization that's more important than dungeon map randomization, I'm guessing.

Anyway, actually, in reality, I have no problem with Robotron. My REAL problem is that I think the rogueishness necessary for the game just wouldn't work with an arena shooter like Robotron because roguelikes tend to necessitate smaller rooms, less the dungeons get innavigable. The action melding could work, just not really in a manner like Robotron does it, per se. You'd need to reduce the numbers of enemies you face at a time quite a bit, and force the action into a smaller ranger around the player.
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o/` I do not feel joy o/`
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o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 07:40:37 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
Anyway, actually, in reality, I have no problem with Robotron. My REAL problem is that I think the rogueishness necessary for the game just wouldn't work with an arena shooter like Robotron because roguelikes tend to necessitate smaller rooms, less the dungeons get innavigable. The action melding could work, just not really in a manner like Robotron does it, per se. You'd need to reduce the numbers of enemies you face at a time quite a bit, and force the action into a smaller ranger around the player.


I'm not sure if "wouldn't work" is right, but, yeah, you're right the scale of the dungeons would be completely different and the dungeons layouts would probably be a lot different from Rogue. Although, theoretically, it's doable. Rooms could be the size of the entire screen and navigation could be handled via a mini-map in a corner of the screen. Most definitely, the hallway structure of many Rogue-like dungeons would have to be mostly obliderated though. But I'm not sure hallways were necessary to the Rogue experience anyway.

You are right though, making interesting dungeons to explore that are mostly half or full screen chambers would be a tricky. And, even then, secret doors and traps would have to be handled differently.

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
I never actually realized the importance of the 'learning item properties' thing in regards to unknown items, but it's what seperates Nethack from PSO. That's the sort of randomization that's more important than dungeon map randomization, I'm guessing.


That's part of it, but also, in PSO (for instance) items are limited to only so many functions. Basically, they can be curative, weapons, or armor, and their only affects are attribute bonuses or penalties. The number of way an item can affect gameplay in Nethack is much more diverse because the scope of play is much less limited in Nethack.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 10:06:16 PM »

This guy I know made a freeware RPG back in like, february, which is a bit rogueish, although not random at all, and has a sort of robotronish fighting setup. I will get a link sometime.It's actually a pretty good game, so all y'all'd do well giving it a play.

http://www.asceai.net/meritous/
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o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

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