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Author Topic: Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!)  (Read 21612 times)
Dice
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« on: October 25, 2007, 12:02:02 AM »

Do tell!!  Many over-appreciated games out there that need to be faced with the truth that they are pretencious pieces of crap (I'm looking at you Kingdom Hearts and FF spin-offs! =) , and some which need more love than they ever got (why the world turned away from Baten Kaitos is beyond me).

Anyways.  More importantly the twist.  ARGUE peoples opinions (but don't flame, or the mods are gonna go to work) with your own if you feel the need to.  For one, no one will cahnge my mind, I will always hate Xenogears' gameplay.  I don't care how epic the story is, I lost the will to play till the amazing end.
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Eusis
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2007, 12:24:38 AM »

I swore we had similar topics relatively recently. Well, whatever. I consider SH:C grossly overrated, especially by the internet denizens. It's story and cast are entertaining and charming, and the ring system freshens combat up a bit, but I had more fun with the combat in SH1, with SH:C being burdened by some useless extraneous crap (I never really saw it practical to use combos unless I inadvertedly started it with a transformation), and battles were juuust long enough to bore me. The dungeon design is some of the blandest I've seen, and I abhorred the fact they basically used the same exact song for 80% of the game's dungeons... And copped out of a proper final dungeon theme by recycling the disc 2 battle theme. This would sting less if there weren't three fantastic final dungeon themes in the original game, which just felt much better design wise on a whole. Honestly though, SH1 kinda followed the generic 32-bit RPG mold and was a bit too late to actually be a PS1 game, even with a blatant end of disc 1 point! SH:C meanwhile followed FFX's model, something that worked fantastic for that one game and horribly with everything else.

My fave underrated RPG has been WA2 for forever. Amongst those who enjoy the series and don't simply blow it off, it seems half of them hate WA2. I really, really enjoyed it for some dumb reason though, and the same to WA3. I'm going to throw in FF:MQ too here. Not that I actually love it, it's definitely far from being one of the better FF titles, but for what it is it's some dumb fun. I guess people expect FFVI or something out of it to blast it so much, though I guess there's something to be said about the principle of it's creation.
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AJR
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2007, 01:40:11 AM »

Underrated I'd probably say Breath of Fire: DQ. It got a lot of hate for some of its gameplay ideas, and I think a lot of it is unwarranted.

Overrated Id have to say Chono Trigger. Its not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, but I could never understand why it got so much praise. Yeah the combination moves were nifty, but the novelty of them wore off on me about half way through the game. I never liked how the battles took place in set areas either; it didnt feel any different to having random battles.
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2007, 03:10:20 AM »

It's more of a matter sociolectical. You say snuck in Ohio. You don't in Australia. And the reverse of that is that most Americans have never eaten an aubergine. Or basiкокбарфингфутболкаcally what I'm saying is that for any community the ideas of overratednost and underratedness will vary based on what reviews people have been exposed to, what sort of 'opinion norming' is going on, etc. So you really need to state on what level or in regards to what circle you're basing your observ[bleeding hands]ations off of.

Using Chrono Trigger as an example, I know there are several communities that hate it.

Also are there ever any games that get good scores that people don't consider overrated?

Well, no.
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2007, 03:26:51 AM »

I'm completely in agreement with Eusis on these. Shadow Hearts: Covenant bored me to death... linear dungeons, obnoxiouis characters, and completely out of place dialog (hard boiled 2000s slang in 1940s Europe... WTF?). One of my best friends raived about this game being the best RPG ever made, I was horribly disappointed.

And Wild Arms 2 gets the short end of the stick. I loved it. In fact, out of the 3 WA games I've played (2, 3, and 4), it's far and away my favorite. Great dungeon design, strong characters. WA3 bored me to tears, and WA4 was a very mixed bag (and I do mean that... there are some incredible things about it, but there are some really crappy things about it), plus it didn't FEEL like a Wild Arms game.

Can't say I've played Mystic Quest though.

As for me, as of recently. I'm bored to death over the constant Persona 3 discussions. I just don't understand what's so great about this game. Maybe I'm not far enough in to appreciate it (just got through the first month), but I got so incredibly bored, I turned it off. I'm enjoying Blue Dragon much more now. I'll just have to come to terms with the fact that we all have different tastes.

Overrated: Xenogears
Underrated: Tales of the Abyss
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Ramza
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2007, 04:33:40 AM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
Using Chrono Trigger as an example, I know there are several communities that hate it.

Also are there ever any games that get good scores that people don't consider overrated?

Well, no.


First point ... what "communities" hate CT? I'm sorry, but this game got a lot of love from every venue worth hearing from, and it deserved it. Overrated, maybe, but people hating it? Yeah I doubt it...

And of course, if a game gets high scores (90% +) someone will call it "overrated" because they think it deserves a lower score. The issue at hand is when MANY REPUTABLE SOURCES praise it, but you yourself think it should not be so. Badabing, badaboom.

Let's see.......

Overrated: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Yes, I went there. I don't have an explanation. I thought it was a fun game, but I've beaten it twice through and it really doesn't have much of a lasting impression on me. Whereas OTHER games do. So I'm not sure why it's considered this "perfect" game, particularly on a console that was, otherwise, not so hot.

Underrated: Here I will both agree and disagree with original poster "Dice." Two games here:

1. Baten Kaitos. PARTICULARLY Baten Kaitos Origins, since this is the only one I played to completion. Holy crap I LOVED this game. First of all, it was huge. And it was difficult. And the combat system was FUN and challenging! And the story was hip. Characters awesome. Music, some of the LEAST redundant we've heard from Sakuraba. All in all, awesome. I think its GameCube exclusivity is what kept it from getting major attention.

2. Final Fantasy X-2. Yeah that's right, this FF spinoff is *underrated.* I went there. I'm saying it. Really, ANY FF game with a job/ability system is going to contain some amount of fun. In X-2, however, I REALLY enjoyed it. Yes, the story is saccharine-sweet bullocks. Yes, the all-female cast got on my nerves. But this game was straight up awesome to play. Seriously. Even the stupid mini-games were cool.

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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2007, 08:48:05 AM »

In my opinion the most overrated game is Dragon Quest VIII. I am serious.
In overall I think the whole DQ franchise is overrated. Kill me later, let me explain first.

Lets face the truth, dudes.

PROS :

- Well, it is Dragon Quest, one of the premier RPG series (OOHOO !)
- very good soundtrack (the orchestrated version, played by the Tokyo Metropolitan Orchestra... Ive listened to the japanese original OST as well - meh. Same good melodies, but sounds very MIDI -like)
- a huge world to explore, charming villages and gorgeous landscapes

CONS (much more than PROS) :

- the main character. Nothing I can say about, because he is SILENT, TOTALLY SILENT. Also he is very generic and ordinary. I neither hate nor like him. I cant sympathize with him a little.
- the story. Fulfills EVERY fucking RPG cliche.
- the world. Yes, Ive written in PROS, that the world is huge and beautiful and blah... BUT THERE IS FAR TOO LESS VARIATION in the landscape.
Just forests, forests, forests, forests, forests,OH A SNOWY AREA, forests, forests, forests, forests, forests, forests, forests, forests, OH A DESERT, forests, forests, forests, forests, forests, forests etc.
Every DAMN continent looks like the others. Well there ARE some differences, but the differences just show up in darker textures
- the character development. It takes FAR TOO LONG to climb up to the next level. Ive spent over 10 hours just to grind up my characters.
- the combatsystem. It is simple, great, quick. But why the fuck do my characters and monsters attack in o particular order ?? Example : I command the hero, then Jessica, Yangus and Angelo. Then a monster is attacking a character, then Jessica attacks, the hero, a monster, a monster, then Yangus and then Angelo. This is horrible, especially when fighting the metal slimes. They always run away, before my characters can attack them.
- too many random encounters. Nothing more to say about.
- in general the design. Damn, the villages, characters and landscapes look too ordinary and generic. Also the monsters tend to be designed too childishly. In overall, I think the whole DQ series is very childish.

Yeah, to be honest, Ive been a big fan of this game. But the more I played it, the more I hated it. Sorry. I am done with Dragon Quest (oh, and Ive also played DQ I, II, III, V... just to add. I AM familiar with rest of the series.)
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2007, 09:17:35 AM »

I didn't hate SH: C but I didn't like their backpedaling and re-writing of Roger Bacon's character. It felt forced and out of place.

Chrono Trigger just leaves me indifferent. I like it - but I prefer Chrono Cross.

As for overrated? Might as well get it out of the way.

Final Fantasy 7.

It's translation is.....not rubbish....but dodgy.
The first disc is good. Quite good, in fact and it really feels markedly different from other FF games. Then, once you get to the world map, it feels fairly typical(ish) and there's lots of rubbish about Ancient, Gaia etc.
It just left me...indifferent.

Underrated? Legend of Mana.

They did a neat twist on the typical RPG formula. If RPGs are "novels", then LOM is a short story anthology. Great graphics for PS1 era, great soundtrack, really distinctive characters and style. Everything just "clicked" for me. I liked the fact the some stories weren't about combat and were just bits of plot or character moments. (It's the same reason I like Tsugunai)

I'll grant that the combat system got repetitive at times, but at least you had different magic attacks which spiced things up.

Overall, most of the people who bitched about it, bitched about it because it wasn't "Secret of Mana 2" rather than what the game was actually like.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2007, 10:45:30 AM »

I think Secret of Evermore is underrated.  Everyone went on about how it sucked donkey dick and how we should have gotten Seiken Densetsu 3 instead.  Although I think Seiken Densetsu 3 is worlds better than Evermore, Evermore itself was actually not a bad game when taken on its own merits.  

I also liked Sigma Star Saga and the Touch Detective games far more than any other press reviewers did.  SaGa Frontier also comes to mind.  I remember renting it once just to see how bad it really was... and I played it one Saturday for 3 hours straight.  I would have kept playing too had a friend not invited me out.  It was a fun game.  Emilia's and Red's quests were my favorites.  

EDIT: Pat, I agree with you that FFX-2 is a fun game.  It's not a grand sweeping epic or anything, but it's a fun RPG.  

One game I consider supremely overrated is one where the elements I hate are the ones that fans of it will say are the best part.  This is a game that is either commended or condemned.  There is no middle ground on it.  Some people say this game is a paragon of its genre.  I say it's a paragon of what NOT to do in its genre.  I've long since forgotten this game, but some games I'm playing to review for RPGfan made me remember it.  

I speak of Myst.  It and its various clones (i.e. Aura: Fate of the Ages, The Sacred Rings) are some of the least fun video games I've ever had the misfortune of playing.  

Just like some RPGs are dungeon crawlers, I consider Myst a ""puzzle crawler."  All it is is a series of often nonsensical, obtuse puzzles, 95% of which are devoid of any context in the plot and seem completely arbitrary.  And plot?  What plot?  There's nobody to talk to, no direction, no motivation to do anything other than merely for the sake of doing it.  In much the same way I loathe dungeon crawl RPGs like Etrian Odyssey, I loathe puzzle crawlers like Myst.  I think that game totally sucks and does not deserve any of the accolades it's been given.  Adventure games should be about an adventure (read: a riveting plotline with cool characters) and Myst clearly was not.  

I am still flabbergasted as to how this overrated piece of shit excuse for a game was one of the best-selling computer games of all time while far superior graphic adventures like Grim Fandango (which had a terrific story and memorable characters along with clever puzzles; one of the absolute best graphic adventures ever created) sold very poorly.
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 11:44:04 AM »

Overrated:  Final Fantasy VI

A good game, but the weakest narrative in the whole fucking series.  This is mostly the fault of the large cast; most of the characters get a scene or two of glory then get shoved on the back burner, never to be seen again.  When your whole plot is carried by what is essentially a cast made up of nothing but supporting characters, you've got yourself some epic fail.  And the sad part is, all it really needed was one really strong protagonist to move the story along.  Why they felt the need to hype up Terra and then bail on her still confuses the hell out of me after all these years.

And of course, even the tiny thread of story cohesion the first half of the game possesses goes straight to hell once you hit the world of ruin and commence with the "lol find teh peoplez" scavenger hunt for the remainder of the fucking game.

FF6 is a good game...but it damn sure ain't because of the story.


Underrated:  Legend of Mana

(I couldn't decide between this and Parasite Eve, but PE tends to get a decent amount of love here, so... :P)

Legend of Mana is far and away one of my favorite games of the PS1 era.  It's got everything I like:  a good battle system, an interesting visual style, several decent storylines to dick around with, and an understated sense of humor that doesn't try to fucking club you in the head with joke after joke like some Working Designs abortion.  I can only assume that the people who don't like it are people who were expecting the second coming of Secret of Mana.  Hell, I can't blame people who want the second coming of awesomeness, but Legend of Mana is a good game on its own merits.
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 07:29:24 PM »

Overrated: Pokemon. Not that it's bad by any means, but I don't understand why it's still regarded as THE monster-breeding RPG when a bunch of other games in that genre - such as DWM, DemiKids, Jade Cocoon 2, Azure Dreams, and even MagiNation - are much better IMO.

Underrated: The aforementioned Azure Dreams (I'm referring to the GBC version, as I never played the PSX version). Monster breeder + Turn-based dungeon hack probably doesn't appeal to most people, but for me it = obsessive-compulsive masterpiece.
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 07:56:48 PM »

Overrated: Disgaea, and practically everything Nippon-Ichi has ever developed, sans Marl Oukoku no Ningyouhime (Rhapsody).  The characters have funny lines.  So what?  The stories are as deep as my toilet bowl and the "abso-fucking-lutely ridiculous amounts of customization and anything goes gameplay" the games offer are, for the most part, quite boring.  Not to mention, La Pucelle, Disgaea,  Phantom Brave and all its brethren are all basically the same fucking game.  NIS really needs to get original and try something new, they've been spoon-feeding us the exact same formula for years now.  I understand their appeal to some folks, but back when Disgaea was uber rare and people were shelling out $100+ for it on eBay, I was pretty shocked.  

Overrated: Kingdom Hearts.  Terrible control scheme and a storyline filled with more plot holes and retcons than... actually, I can't think of any other game/movie with more retcons than Kingdom Hearts.  Tetsuya Nomura's character designs are an old shoe, and even the soundtracks are pretty "meh" in my book.  "OMG IT HAS DISNEY WORLDS" isn't enough to make up for the rest of the mess.

Overrated: Suikoden.  I and II were amazing games, but the series has taken one hell of a nose-dive ever since.  III's battle system and asthetic presentation were an atrocity, IV was straight-up terrible all around, and V, while returning to the series' roots moreso than III and IV, was still a very low-budget title.  Anytime someone tries to tell me that the sailing system in IV "wasn't that bad," I can't help but laugh.  I honestly don't understand why people still like this series.

Overrated: Shadow Hearts.  The "Wheel of Fortune" battle system and villains with names like "Roger Bacon"?  Give me a break. :P  I've ranted about Shadow Hearts no less than 100 times over the course of ~3 years, though, so I won't do it again.  Y'all know why I don't like it.

Underrated: Stella Deus.  Great characters, great storyline.  Incredible artwork.  People complained about the lackluster customization, but at the same time, they cherish classics like Shining Force I and II which have even less to offer in that department.  People complained about the Cave of Trials, too, and how it was necessary to grind there in order to beat bosses.  As if "taking a break to grind levels" is something new to the genre. :P  Not enough people gave Stella Deus a fair chance; next to Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force I and II, and the Langrisser series, it's one of my favorite SRPGs, and /definitely/ my favorite SRPG on PS2.
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AJR
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 08:31:31 PM »

Quote from: "Shiguma"

Overrated: Shadow Hearts.  The "Wheel of Fortune" battle system and villains with names like "Roger Bacon"?


I've got no problem with someone disliking the game itself, just one thing:
Code:
Roger Bacon ends up being a cooky old man who helps you. Albert Simon is the actual villian of the game.
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2007, 08:50:31 PM »

The truth about final fantasy 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkxR4p7P74Y
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2007, 09:41:52 PM »

Underrated:  Shadow Hearts series - Quite fond of it; I like the way the series borrows liberally from "actual" events, and its sense of humor.  Roger Bacon as a mummified horny toad is amusing.

Underrated:  Suikoden 3 - Still my number 1 game;  personally, has the best, most delightful, fully fleshed out and quite mature story I ever encountered.  I've been told before that the Suikoden series is not so much about "black and white" but "grays," and this installment pretty much defines that.

Underrated:  Xenosaga series - Pity that more may not be forthcoming.  Spectacular and outlandish storyline, the kind I can get lost in.

Underrated:  Valkyrie Profile series - Addictive gameplay, fantastic story, and Norse Mythology rolled into one.  Deserves to be on top with Square Enix's other mega blockbusters.
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