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Author Topic: Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!)  (Read 21619 times)
Eusis
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2007, 10:07:47 PM »

Only one, maybe two of those you listed is underrated (Suikoden 3 and maybe Xenosaga) unless you're angry at a lack of 9s/10s.

Edit: In fact, SuikIII only really qualifies because of the fan reaction. It got generally high marks otherwise and a 9+ from GameSpot/IGN.
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Dice
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« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 10:41:39 PM »

Quote from: "cosapi"
The truth about final fantasy 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkxR4p7P74Y


Mind fucking.  I'm happy he made mention abotu the "ground breaking graphics" the game had for its time.  He's right, they weren't.  It was like Namco releasing Tales of the Abyss after having Xenosaga 3 (graphic comparison is ginormous guy)
Gotta say, aside from the fact the guy sounds like he sleeps with games rather than women...he's got a rockin good point.

I was thinking about it too.  You get the uber-super high-budget games (example: Kingdom Hearts: which calls in countless contracts with Disney, a pop-star, an orchestra, celebrity voices, the works) that will get the 9 and 10 out of 10's it was trying to win.  Then you get the simpler, lower budget games (for example: Phoenix Wright, funny, simple gameplay, small budget release) that does jsut as well.
...I don't really know if I was gonna ask a question here, but I did wanna get that out there (since we are talking about the over & under rated I guess).

On that note Kingdom Hearts is grossly overrated.  It always pissed me off on Deviant Art when I made some shitty fan art for it, it would get 5 times the fucking praise it deserved.  It was fun to play...sorta.  I rememebr gettign bored with it and just wanted to finish it.  The story line is so far-fetched I feel drowned (hard to explain).  To this day I still have no clue w.t.f. the point of Organization XIII is... and I'll be damned if I replay it to find out.

Underrated:  Saga Frontier II, Wild Arms 3, and Breath of Fire V, and Baten Kaitos (1 and 2.... the second pulled the rare case where the sequel surpasses the first).  I'm probably speaking out of personaly love and nostaligia.  But yum.
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Ramza
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2007, 01:46:22 AM »

Quote from: "ILP"
In overall I think the whole DQ franchise is overrated. Kill me later, let me explain first.


You did your explaining. Time for the killing.

Quote from: "ILP"
very good soundtrack (the orchestrated version, played by the Tokyo Metropolitan Orchestra... Ive listened to the japanese original OST as well - meh. Same good melodies, but sounds very MIDI -like)


You're refering to DQ8 here? Yeah um ... yeah. no. The orchestra version was weak (recording quality especially), and the OST is (compared to any other DQ in the series) very strong.

Quote from: "ILP"
the main character. Nothing I can say about, because he is SILENT, TOTALLY SILENT. Also he is very generic and ordinary. I neither hate nor like him. I cant sympathize with him a little.


Yeah, it's called SILENT PROTAGONIST. It's used in RPGs so that you can put yourself in the person's shoes and relate. Like Serge in Chrono Cross. It's a fairly typical concept. Nice one, pickin' up on that. Also, "I can't sympathize with him a little"??? What does that even mean?

Quote from: "ILP"
the story. Fulfills EVERY fucking RPG cliche.


1) no it doesn't.
2) considering DQ started and basically defined RPG trends, I don't see how this would be a problem.

Quote from: "ILP"
the character development. It takes FAR TOO LONG to climb up to the next level. Ive spent over 10 hours just to grind up my characters.


The phrase "character development" refers to, and ONLY to, the development of the *character.* As in, who they are. Their story. Their own personal subplot. I think the phrase you may have been looking for here is "character growth."

Quote from: "ILP"
the combat system. It is simple, great, quick. But why the fuck do my characters and monsters attack in o particular order ?? Example : I command the hero, then Jessica, Yangus and Angelo. Then a monster is attacking a character, then Jessica attacks, the hero, a monster, a monster, then Yangus and then Angelo. This is horrible, especially when fighting the metal slimes. They always run away, before my characters can attack them.


The order isn't random. It's based upon the character's (and enemy's) speed/agility/whatever. Apparently you hadn't played any RPGs before the "Active Time Battle" system was created in the FF series.

Quote from: "ILP"
in general the design. Damn, the villages, characters and landscapes look too ordinary and generic. Also the monsters tend to be designed too childishly. In overall, I think the whole DQ series is very childish.


What you call "childish" someone else may find "charming." How can you list this as a "con" with any legitimacy?

There you go. You, or at least your awful representation of your opinion, has been smacked in the face.

NEXT!

Quote from: "Shiguma"
and villains with names like "Roger Bacon"?


C'mon Shig. Please tell me you know that's a very IMPORTANT historical figure, and not just some bullshit name they made up. Cuz seriously, the validity of your case is seriously hurt if you don't recognize the name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Bacon

Seriously, the guy was freaking amazing. May seriously have been even cooler than the founder of his order, Saint Francis himself.

(I just said "seriously" 4 times in as many sentences. That shows you how serious I am.)

HISTORY PEOPLE, HISTORY!

(which is part of what made Shadow Hearts cool. You're entitled to your opinion, but at least the creators of Shadow Hearts' story were witty and intelligent).

BUT...

Quote from: "Shiguma"
Underrated: Stella Deus.


HEAR HEAR! Loved it.
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Barnacle
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2007, 01:57:35 AM »

Quote from: Eusis
Only one, maybe two of those you listed is underrated (Suikoden 3 and maybe Xenosaga) unless you're angry at a lack of 9s/10s.

Edit: In fact, SuikIII only really qualifies because of the fan reaction. It got generally high marks otherwise and a 9+ from GameSpot/IGN.


Should have clarified; was thinking more in terms of sales numbers. :) To a chunk of gamers, the games seem to not rate as high as, e.g., the Final Fantasy series which I am also quite fond of, to warrant a purchase.
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Ashton
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2007, 02:22:26 AM »

Quote from: "cosapi"
The truth about final fantasy 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkxR4p7P74Y

Holy shit, Opinion is fact now?

Awesome.

I believe... the moon landing was fake and the Earth is actually square! It is my opinion so it must be true now! Magnificent.
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Shiguma
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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2007, 02:25:13 AM »

Quote from: "Ramza"
Quote from: "Shiguma"
and villains with names like "Roger Bacon"?


C'mon Shig. Please tell me you know that's a very IMPORTANT historical figure, and not just some bullshit name they made up. Cuz seriously, the validity of your case is seriously hurt if you don't recognize the name.

After skimming the Wikipedia article, it actually rang the AP European History bell from high school.  I openly admit that I am by /no means/ a history buff, I find the stuff dreadfully boring.  I'm one of those shallow pragmatists who only sees value in learning something if I can turn around and make money with it later.  Reading about dead people and crunching chemistry equations about the protons/electrons/whatever in my soda pop has never interested me.  Business, computer science, foreign languages... those would be my specialty.

Anyhow, I stand corrected: Shadow Hearts has a profoundly named character in its midst.  But, the rest of the game still sucks. ;)
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Evil Gately
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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2007, 03:52:54 AM »

Under-rated? Gotta go with Suikoden Tactics. Personal guilty pleasure of mine. It actually managed to carry me through to the end of Suiko IV, which took some doing! OK, so the combat system ripped both Fire Emblem (with many characters vulnerable to permanent death) and FF Tactics, but that is in no way a bad thing when the two styles were fused as well as they had been. I personally fully accepted Konami's 'apology' for Suikden IV!

Over-rated? Pretty much every main-series Final Fantasy title since (and including) VII. VII's translation alone was terrible. VIII was just a bunch of whiney teens that I never felt anything for. IX was a (self-declared) exercise in presenting every RPG cliche and wrapping it up in a package called 'homage to the genre.' X was more whiney teens with added awkward translations (whistling seen, anyone?). Oh yeah, and the main character is such a wuss that he can't even pick up a sword in the first fight!!! XI was trying to out MMO WOW and failed. Miserably. A series famed for its plots should not attempt to go MMO. 'Epic story' and 'open-ended' are not compatible! XII had a severe lack of characterisation for my liking.

More over-rated? Secret of Evermore. Recently, there's been a lot of love for this game on these boards, which prompted me to dig it out again. I did finish this game way back when, and I'm still wondering what the hell pulled me through it! All the charm and grace of Secret of Mana replaced with a DOG!!!
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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2007, 04:27:13 AM »

Quote from: "Evil Gately"
X was more whiney teens with added awkward translations (whistling seen, anyone?). Oh yeah, and the main character is such a wuss that he can't even pick up a sword in the first fight!!!


Er, how is Tidus a wuss again? He started out a bit cowardly, but who wouldn't if they were plucked from their home and dumped in the middle of nowhere? His development is one of the best I've seen in any game, from a useless kid whining about wanting to go home, to a badass whose iron will and steel resolve saved an entire world from a cycle of death, even though he knew full well he would cease to exist if he succeeded. A lot of people use the excuse that he 'couldn't use a sword well' his first tie. I dare anyone here to pick up a weapon they've never used before and try using it like a master.

Quote from: "Evil Gately"
XI was trying to out MMO WOW and failed. Miserably. A series famed for its plots should not attempt to go MMO. 'Epic story' and 'open-ended' are not compatible!


Uh.... how was FFXI trying to out MMO WoW if it came out BEFORE it? I mean seriously, are you daft? Added to that, have you even played the game? Much of the storyline is pretty great. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there. 'Epic story' and 'open-ended' are not mutually exclusive. Also, FFXI is the best selling MMO in Japan, which is what's really important to S-E anyway.
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Shiguma
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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2007, 05:17:04 AM »

Evil Gately:

1) It sounds like you haven't experienced even 1% of Final Fantasy XI.  Did you complete the main storyline or any of the expansions?

2) How is Final Fantasy XI "overrated," exactly?  If anything, that game has received more criticism and unwarranted bashing (mainly from people who, once again, have barely played it at all) than any other MMO I can think of.

If you don't like the game, that's cool, but I hope you have a Level 75 job and have seen the story to its end before generalizing that its "epic story + open-ended formula" doesn't work.  I sometimes criticize World of Warcraft, but I also sank a good ~1200 hours worth of playtime into the game.

And on that note...

Overrated: World of Warcraft. :P
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Dice
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2007, 07:18:36 AM »

Quote
Yeah, it's called SILENT PROTAGONIST. It's used in RPGs so that you can put yourself in the person's shoes and relate. Like Serge in Chrono Cross. It's a fairly typical concept. Nice one, pickin' up on that. Also, "I can't sympathize with him a little"??? What does that even mean?

I still never liked it.  Maybe it has something to do with me being a girl and half the S.P.'s are guys thats made it harder for me to put myself as them.  I'unno.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2007, 11:09:48 AM »

Looking besides games themselves, I can see certain aspects of games as overrated/underrated.  For example, I think the soundtracks for Xenosaga 2 and Final Fantasy X-2 are underrated.  I loved Shinji Hosoe's music in Xenosaga 2 (and I'm already a Yuki Kajiura fan).  And in Final Fantasy X-2, I'm thoroughly enjoying Eguchi's and Matsueda's music.  I was expecting horrible ear-bleedingly bad music due to what people were saying, yet I was pleasantly surprised by some really groovy tunes that made me just want to stand still in one place so I could listen to them more.  

And I wonder what is it about a game that leads it to being overrated/underrated?  Is it expectations, be they unmet or exceeded?

Because, for example, I can see how people would bluster on about how FFX-2 sucks because it's not a bombastic, world's gonna end RPG like Final Fantasy games before it.  But when taken for what it is, it's a really fun RPG.  I'm enjoying the experience more than I did with FFX (and I loved that game.)  I love the mission based gameplay and it's something I think would have made FF8 far more dynamic.  Plus how could I not enjoy playing dress up with Rikku?  She rocks.  Best character in FFX by far.  

...and Myst is still the most overrated game I can think of.
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2007, 11:14:13 AM »

I still have my Launch copy of FFXI from 2003 for PC. That being said, I havent touched the game since 2003. The difficulty is definitely there, the combat is not, extremely strong enemies, boring combat where you run circles around your opponent and slash, cant even run away or be stealthy, de-leveling I wasnt fond of, I didnt get to explore the worlds as fast as I wanted to, The game definitely has some pacing issues. Beautiful game though, just wish everything else was on par. The people who like insane challenge will love this game, or maybe I just sucked at the game, I dont know, but I care not play the game again.

Underrated MMO: Lineage II.

Note: I dont play MMORPGs anymore, they just arent satisfying like single player games, if I want some mindless fun, I might play an online game, but that is very rare.
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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2007, 11:32:43 AM »

Overrated:

NIS strategy RPGs. I don't really have a valid argument to go with this, I just have never been able to immerse myself or become engrossed in any game that falls under this category. Maybe they're a little TOO complex for my tastes (because I love Shining Force, Fire Emblem, and FF Tactics, which I would classify as more simplistic in terms of gameplay mechanics than say, Disgaea), but I'll definitely give them another shot someday. I think I've started Disgaea 3 or 4 times only to feel daunted by how much there is to do/keep track of.

Additionally, I think Grandia is overrated. Just the first one. It probably doesn't help that I played Grandia II before the first installment. I'm 40 hours into it and I just want the thing to fucking end already. The journey is epic, but for some reason in a tedious and annoying way. It also has a forgettable storyline.


Underrated:

I'll chime in and say Baten Kaitos. Admittedly it takes a while for it to get good, but once you've got more characters and are really in the meat of it, it's a lot of fun. It's refreshing to hear all the praise Origins has received (sequel better than original? Nice.), I'll definitely have to pick that up soon. (Ooh, just checked on Ebay and it's only $20 now)

At the time, I thought Legend of Legaia was the shit and had the sickest battle system everrrrrr. I still think it's an above average game, and from my recollection reviewers thought it was decent at best. I don't know, just watching Noa unleash her 9-hit combo or whatever-- I could never get tired of that. My judgment is clouded with nostalgia for this game though. I can see how people would rate the game unfavorably.

LEGEND OF DRAGOON!! I personally loved the timed attacks in battles and learning their special attacks. Story-- meh. I'm more of a gameplay-oriented guy in the first place, so it didn't bother me that much. I remember the graphics being incredible for its time as well.
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Dice
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2007, 11:36:45 AM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"
FFX-2 stuff here.


I like your point about music (Kajiura rocks).

I think one thing that set people off about FFX2's music was the fact one of the tracks does start with a monkey wail, and some do sound like a funky Spira-ified Charlie'sAngels kinda funk to it.  Otherwise, I think the opening theme for it is one of my favourite song of all I've heard.

I personally do think that in terms of criticism, FFX2 was underrated.  Sure the story was all but there, but the battle was a lot of fun, and the gameplay definitely had a bit more substance the the original (ie; Yuna can jump, a thought that didn't seem to cross Tidus' mind that often)
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2007, 11:42:06 AM »

Quote from: "sandiny0ursh0es"
Overrated:

NIS strategy RPGs..


Glad someone said it.  Then again, anyone notice a steady decline in the reviews this publisher releases?  That old-school charm with kawaii anime archtypes only works for so long.


Quote
Additionally, I think Grandia is overrated. Just the first one. It probably doesn't help that I played Grandia II before the first installment. I'm 40 hours into it and I just want the thing to fucking end already.


Need I point out and say: stop wasting time?  40 hours is a lot, ride a bike if its that bad.


Quote
Underrated:

I'll chime in and say Baten Kaitos.


Despite your time management ethics, I like you again.

(PS sorry for the double post)
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