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Author Topic: Overrated & Underrated (with a twist!)  (Read 21003 times)
Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2007, 07:55:50 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
(Additionally, this is why battle systems with, say, only three, or even a single, character aren't necessarily less strategic. It's not about the number of actions or characters you get. It's about using the number of actions/characters you have effectively. If you have twenty characters that aren't that unique, you don't really have to think. If you have a single character up against a tough boss, you really have to make your single action count. Except that's not the only area where it matters. I mean, you also have to weigh costs and benefits of the actions you can do, so yeah, if you have one character and there's only a single action that ever makes sense, then not, it's not strategic there, either).


The challenge of RPGs is not strategy, it is resource and risk management. For instance: here is a conundrum constantly presented to the player. Do you heal under the chance that your character will receive a strong attack and be instantly killed? Or do you attack and heal next turn when you are at lower HP in order to preserve MP (or maximize turns spent attacking)? Basically, for most battle situations you could program a machine to approach the battle the same way you would approach it. The technique is rewriting your "formula" for every encounter, or every dungeon, or whatever. I'm not sure if that constitutes strategy (although it probably doesn't really matter either way). But that's why I like RPGs.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2007, 11:10:42 PM »

"The challenge of RPGs is not strategy, it is resource and risk management."

Resource management and risk management are strategy.

Anyway, this is where also some of the stupid problems crop up. For instance, have you ever noticed that stat buffers and status attacks are pretty much useless in any console RPG thta's not a recent Shin Megami Tensei or Dragon Warrior game? If the chance of failure is always 100%, then risk management is sort of diminished since you have no real reason to be taking that risk in the first place.
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Lord Scottish
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« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2007, 07:24:37 PM »

So much for my attempt to steer this topic towards its original focus. :P

While we're completely off-topic, what do you guys think of Lufia: the Legend Returns (GBC)? I've been interested in that game for a while, but have heard naught but bad things about it.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2007, 08:11:21 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
Anyway, this is where also some of the stupid problems crop up. For instance, have you ever noticed that stat buffers and status attacks are pretty much useless in any console RPG thta's not a recent Shin Megami Tensei or Dragon Warrior game? If the chance of failure is always 100%, then risk management is sort of diminished since you have no real reason to be taking that risk in the first place.


Agreed. It's pretty poor design. Also, why the fuck do status affects never work on enemies?

I think that's part of the reason why I like action/RPGs. Since many games eliminate all battle commands aside from "heal" and "attack", at least action-based game play forces the player to develop some sort of technique.

Quote from: "Lord Scottish"
While we're completely off-topic, what do you guys think of Lufia: the Legend Returns (GBC)? I've been interested in that game for a while, but have heard naught but bad things about it.


I really liked what I've played of this. Unfortunately, this isn't all that much since I've bought 3 copies and none of them have had a good save battery. It must be a design flaw. I suppose I need to just buy a tri-wing screw driver and swap it out myself.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2007, 01:08:29 AM »

Quote
I think that's part of the reason why I like action/RPGs. Since many games eliminate all battle commands aside from "heal" and "attack", at least action-based game play forces the player to develop some sort of technique.


Games where you could really rape people with status effects were like, Wizardry 8, though ;) Sleep and blind also hurt defense a lot.

And you had potions of summon fire elemental.

Relatively useless attack items is a bit of a problem with the SMT games of late, actually.

Anyway, since you mentioned action/rpgs, the status effects in legend of mana can actually be immsensely useful on the hard modes. enemies have a lot of hp and can kill you pretty fast, so either tempering status attacks into your weapons or using synchros is quite useful. they don't really help as much on bosses, but regular battles can actually wipe you out, so yeah.

anyway, I'm also pretty sure status attacks could work in chrono cross. that series has a lot of really neat subtleties with the skill system that I didn't really pick up on the first time, and I'm also not in the mood to elaborate now but I might sometime (Very short version: CC lacking MP changes the focus from resource managment to resource allocation and in-battle strategy, and CT's combo system is far more intricate than I ever realized).

Anyway, I've started playing Soulblazer recently. Unless it starts crapping out massively, I might start adding that to the "underrated list." Filling int he town is *really, really cool,* and I like how you have a little hovering bit that shoots fireballs. And that it feels like a Genesis game. So yeah, maybe underrated

Which is how I feel about Illusion of Gaia too, sort of. This is another game I'm not really far in, but I think the action is really nice and fast, I like the character switching, I like how surreal it is, I don't like the translation sucking (BAD BAD BAD), and I think the dungeon designs are pretty neat. And stuff like the Incan Gold Ship, the pig... and just various little things that do sort of get under your skin and == brainfuck!

Also wanna play more of Ys III sometime to see how I feel about it.
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Willy Elektrix
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« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2007, 03:17:25 PM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
Quote
I think that's part of the reason why I like action/RPGs. Since many games eliminate all battle commands aside from "heal" and "attack", at least action-based game play forces the player to develop some sort of technique.


Games where you could really rape people with status effects were like, Wizardry 8, though ;) Sleep and blind also hurt defense a lot.


Recently, Etrian Odyssey made good use of status affects and buff spells too.

I need to play Wizardry 8. Wizardry 7 was one of the finest RPGs I've ever played - can't remember if you used status affects or not. I just really remember falling in love with the world. T'rang, Umpani, they were all cool.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2007, 11:58:32 PM »

Yeah, Wizardry 8's the same... overall setting as setting. Different planet, but same story arc. And pretty fleshed out, too.
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Act00
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« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2008, 03:23:16 AM »

Hmm, time bring back this topic!

Overrated:

-Final Fantasy XII: Pretty much one of the biggest dissapointments of all time. Well at least story-wise. The gameplay itself is decent, but not enough to keep playing long enough.

Underrated:

-Wild Arms 4: Well the story is not very original, but the game itself is really enjoyable. One problem: A bit short. (I'm finished this in 24 hours.)

-Tales of Legendia: Maybe, not the greatest of Tales series, but still good game. But the combat and character development, could be better and complex.
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Blace
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« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2008, 07:37:51 AM »

Quote from: "Act00"
Hmm, time bring back this topic!

Overrated:

-Final Fantasy XII: Pretty much one of the biggest dissapointments of all time. Well at least story-wise. The gameplay itself is decent, but not enough to keep playing long enough.

Underrated:

-Wild Arms 4: Well the story is not very original, but the game itself is really enjoyable. One problem: A bit short. (I'm finished this in 24 hours.)

-Tales of Legendia: Maybe, not the greatest of Tales series, but still good game. But the combat and character development, could be better and complex.


I totally disagree. FFXII was brilliant and Tales of Legendia was awful. FFXII's seamless combat and exploration was a treat and I thought the story and characters were still better than most JRPG's, even if they don't quite hold up to other games in the series. As for Legendia, I mean the battle system was a giant turd, I didn't dig the aesthetics and some of the voice acting made me cringe.
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CDFN
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« Reply #84 on: April 30, 2008, 07:45:21 AM »

I really enjoyed WA4, I also think it's underrated. But FFXII? No way, the game is fantastic and deserves the praise it gets.

I think that overall the xenosaga series is underrated. Ep. 1 was fantastic when it was released and Ep 3 is one of the best rpgs on the PS2.

For me TEH most overrated game is kingdom hearts (1&2).
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AJR
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« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2008, 08:20:22 AM »

I really enjoyed WA4 too. The story was terrible, but I had a ton of fun with the gameplay. The hex based battle system was an excellent addition to the series.
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Act00
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« Reply #86 on: April 30, 2008, 11:20:40 AM »

Quote from: "CDFN"
I really enjoyed WA4, I also think it's underrated. But FFXII? No way, the game is fantastic and deserves the praise it gets.

I think that overall the xenosaga series is underrated. Ep. 1 was fantastic when it was released and Ep 3 is one of the best rpgs on the PS2.

For me TEH most overrated game is kingdom hearts (1&2).

Well FFXII isn't a bad game, but.............

Xenosaga:I agree with that.

KH: Well I enjoyed the second game. But I respect your oponion.
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Der Jermeister
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« Reply #87 on: May 01, 2008, 06:32:51 PM »

I think Final Fantasy Tactics is vastly overrated. Whoever decided that the player can't undo movement needs to be shot, almost *every* enemy can counterattack, there are stupid annoying points of no return, random encounters on the overworld were a stupid idea, Cidolfas is your only hope in the last chapter, and the character art just looks stupid. Then again, I really haven't liked any FF spinoff games aside from X-2.
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Blace
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« Reply #88 on: May 01, 2008, 07:46:52 PM »

Quote from: "Der Jermeister"
I think Final Fantasy Tactics is vastly overrated. Whoever decided that the player can't undo movement needs to be shot, almost *every* enemy can counterattack, there are stupid annoying points of no return, random encounters on the overworld were a stupid idea, Cidolfas is your only hope in the last chapter, and the character art just looks stupid. Then again, I really haven't liked any FF spinoff games aside from X-2.


Heresy!
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Dincrest
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« Reply #89 on: May 01, 2008, 07:53:57 PM »

I think the most underrated RPG I've played this year was Wild Arms XF.  Critics absolutely slammed the game, and IMO for stupid reasons.  They lambasted the game because it actually required using strategy in a different way than other SRPGs do, was quite challenging (wimps!), and wasn't FF Tactics.  I mean come on.  Wild Arms wasn't FF7 and you know what?  That's what made it endearing and why I liked it.  I definitely think most critics were too incompetent to play XF.  If you poke around the XF boards on GameFAQs, those who like the game vehemently love it.  

I thought the game was very good.  My review says it all, and it's probably one of the only reviews on the web that actually praises the game.
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