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Author Topic: For everyone who once said, "FFXI sucks, you can't solo  (Read 16934 times)
PKProductions
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 11:03:00 PM »

Well, there you go, I sucked at the game. I have no problem admitting that. The reason I circled was because I was probably bored of just sitting there watching my character mindlessly attack mobs. What I dont understand, why have the circling in there at all, if it does you no good? Why not just keep it like regular running around on the field, and controlling the camera? I still think there are plenty of things wrong with the game, and maybe just the begining of the game was too bland and slow (in combonation of me sucking at it) for me to even want to keep playing, but thats still a problem.
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ValendianKnight
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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2007, 10:29:28 PM »

Well, I always take "soloing" as something you get exp for, I don't care if you can solo bosses. Getting exp in this game by yourself was, and still is, stupid slow/annoying for some jobs, impossible for others.
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Shiguma
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2007, 06:06:50 AM »

My 60 BLM solos for 4000-6000 EXP an hour.  That's on par, if not more than, what I could earn in a traditional party.  It's not particularly hard, either; find a camp with some beastmaster mobs, wait for them to turn their backs, pull pets with Water III, Sleep II it, then blow it up with [insert Ancient Magic spell which cooresponds to the current Vana'diel day of the week].  It's easy.

The Dancer (DNC) job was recently added in Wings of the Goddess.  DNC/NIN has shadows at their disposal, and Drain Samba allows them to recover health.  I was partying on my 16 DRK, last night, and it was difficult to find unclaimed mobs in Korroloka Tunnel due to the massive number of Dancers who were soloing there.

Sure, not every job can solo.  But again, why would you want to in a massively multiplayer game?  Isn't most of the fun playing with various people, making friends, and working together to accomplish goals?  Regardless though, over half of the 20 jobs are fairly competent soloers now, and I think that's more than enough to satisfy even the most stubborn "lone wolf" gamer.
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AoE
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2007, 09:53:13 PM »

It depends on the player really. Soloing for experience is kind of an inconvenience in this game because if you mess up, the penalty is kinda harsh. Black Mages, Beastmasters  are probably the best soloers because of the tools they have that allow them to kill relatively fast with the only risk being how much they keep their skills up to par, their equipment and in some cases, their wit.

Paladins, Red Mages, Puppermasters, Blue Mages, Ninjas and Thieves can solo to an extent but if you're doing it for experience points, it's an inconvenience in that it either takes painfully long, or trying to solo certain things ends up putting you near death or close to death and then having to rest for health adds to the amount of time it takes to solo so in essence becomes something that's not really worth doing alone.

Soloing is definitely possible but it's a real pain in the ass to do in FFXI if you're not a certain job and/or have the necessary skills/equipment to do so.

Edit : Forgot about ninjas. Amount of time I haven't been playing this is actually taking it's toll on my memory. Heh.
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cosapi
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2007, 03:22:24 AM »

Not being able to solo was hardly the reason people would claim ffxi sucked.
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Shiguma
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2007, 12:16:27 AM »

Well, we all know your reason for not liking Final Fantasy XI: "IT'S NOT OGRE BATTLE LOL."  It would definitely be a much better, more balanced game if we could, say, not control our own characters and had random cards determine outcomes of the battles.  Yes indeed.

We appreciate the moments when you come around and troll.  Please continue providing us with your unique brand of content-less amusement.  =^.^=
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cosapi
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2007, 05:47:54 AM »

Hardly.

The market for a "new" mmo similar to FFXI is practically non-existent in this post-WoW mmorpg market.

(If you're thinking, what the hell does a "new" mmo similar to FFXI have to do with FFXI? Read on!)

I'm not saying WoW is a good game or anything. And even though FFXI and WoW are two different games with very different communities, they tend to provide a very similar game play experience at the core of each game. (the interdependency between tanks, healers and damage dealers to grind for something. Or to simply grind for something and watch numbers increase.)

But no one plays mmos for the gameplay, right? It's usually the community that keeps people there. Which is an inheritedly flawed game design decision. After all, relying on your players to entertain themselves in your game, as opposed to providing entertaining gameplay content, is just lazy. It's asking someone else to do your job for you. You might as well insert pop-culture references into your gam... Oh wait. Anyways! MMOs are easily the reality television of video games.

Had FFXI been released post-WoW, chances are it wouldn't have done nearly as well, but would still be a success. The Final Fantasy name does sell after all.

Considering how FFXI holds up by todays standards of MMORPG design though... As stated, there wouldn't be much of a market for it had it been released post WoW.
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Akanbe-
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2007, 02:17:00 PM »

Quote from: "cosapi"
But no one plays mmos for the gameplay, right? It's usually the community that keeps people there.


WoW has the absolute worst community on the internet.

I, and many others, play(ed) it for the gameplay/content.  Yeah, there was a small group of people I met that I loved to play with, but they were only part of the reason I played.

edit:  small group =/= community.  In my case and many others, everyone I play with is not familiar with each other.  I'm not talking about a guild because you can be a in a decent guild and still have players who are half fucking worthless.
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cosapi
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2007, 10:12:28 PM »

Quote from: "Akanbe-"
Quote from: "cosapi"
But no one plays mmos for the gameplay, right? It's usually the community that keeps people there.


WoW has the absolute worst community on the internet.

I, and many others, play(ed) it for the gameplay/content.  Yeah, there was a small group of people I met that I loved to play with, but they were only part of the reason I played.


A small group? In other words, community.

WoW vastly improved upon many small aspects of the distinct type of mmo pattern both games (FFXI and WoW) tend to follow. However odd it may seem to people, FFXI and WoW are not the "end all be all" to mmorpg design concept. They just tend to be more popular with worker bees.

I guarantee you however, had FFXI been released post-WoW, FFXI would likely be more of a WoW clone as opposed to it's current condition of being closer to an EQ clone.

If FFXI retained the same roots as it currently does, AND was released post-WoW, players would probably take one look at how you have to walk outside town and kill (x) foozles to reach (z) exp and they'd go back to WoW. The community outside of japanese players would probably never have the chance to take off like it did in FFXI.

In other words. If FFXI was a WoW clone, it would probably net SE far more profit. Much like the upcoming Warhammer Online will be (another WoW clone with DAoC inspired pvp, eg pvp as an "after thought"). Like it or not, WoW did what FFXI dreamed of doing. I once heard someone say "WoW is FFXI done right", and there was some truth to that.
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Shiguma
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2007, 11:35:55 PM »

Quote from: "cosapi"
If FFXI retained the same roots as it currently does, AND was released post-WoW, players would probably take one look at how you have to walk outside town and kill (x) foozles to reach (z) exp and they'd go back to WoW. The community outside of japanese players would probably never have the chance to take off like it did in FFXI.


ALL MMORPGs are based on the "walk outside town and kill (x) foozles to reach (z) exp" formula.  The only difference is that WoW disguises said grinding in the form of its "quests," so players are killing foozles in order to collect (y) drops to bring back for their exp.  It's the same shit in a different package.  I hardly see how this makes World of Warcraft superior to Final Fantasy XI in any regard.

World of Warcraft is a successful game because it's /easier/ than Final Fantasy XI.  This makes it more accessible to a wider audience.  It's the same idea behind the Nintendo Wii; make a softcore system to attract a large number of users.  That doesn't mean it's "better" than the PlayStation 3 or the Xbox 360; in fact, it's little more than a Gamecube with a fancy controller.  But consequently, it's more attractive to the average consumer, despite its inferior hardware.

In regards to your "WoW is FFXI done right" comment, uh... that's nothing more than an opinion.  I don't see how it is a profound statement about the two games, heh.  And Square Enix has stated time and time again that they have no desire to compare themselves to, or compete with, World of Warcraft.  So no, WoW is not "what SE dreamed of doing with FFXI," that's completely unsubstantiated.

Finally, the question I always ask: Have you actually /played/ both of the games to the end?  90% of the people who chime in on the eternal "FFXI vs. WoW" debate are simply regurgitating pieces of other peoples' ramblings on the internet.  Unless you have a Level 60+ character in both games, I don't understand why anyone should take you seriously in this discussion.
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cosapi
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« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2007, 02:55:49 AM »

Quote from: "Shiguma"

stuff


WoW is basically quest grinding, yes. However, if WoW was the only thing I could compare to FFXI in order to know what's wrong with FFXI, I'd probably still be playing FFXI (I don't play mmorpgs). And WoW isn't exactly easier than FFXI. MMORPGs are not hard, they're usually designed to contain very simple game play so almost anyone can hit a button and make sure your targets health bar goes down quicker than yours and auto-combat to victory. The biggest hurdle in mmorpgs is dealing with situations which involve other people.

Now that you mentioned the Wii however. Non-spoilers. The Wii is basically nintendo doing what sony did back in the mid-90s. They needed a new market so they'll attempt to no longer provide for their previous market. You would no longer be able to find what you previously could find in said market because it has changed and appeals to a different audience now. This is one of the reasons I feel video games  have died because games are no longer being made for the reasons people liked them during previous demographics.

And much like the Wii, the purpose of mmorpgs as a genre is quite similar. As opposed to the rarity that someone might enjoy making a game due to the love of game making. An mmo is usually made entirely for profit. Let's be honest here, no one thinks it's "cool" to stand around for hours camping that "pop". It wasn't cool in 1999 and it wasn't cool in 2003 and it still isn't. MMORPG design is something no one should be proud of at this point and time. No one makes mmorpgs out of enjoyment for the genre. I could go off rambling about that but I'm not going to get into that.

But that's generally the reason why WoW is FFXI done right. Because mmorpgs are a genre created entirely for profit. It's like cashing in on that big fat name brand or company name. Had FFXI not contained the final fantasy name, the Square brand and had not been online, no one would have given two cents worth of shit about it.

And as stated before, this doesn't have to be a FFXI vs WoW debate. Chances are, most people could probably just play one mmo and get the jist of how another mmo functions since there are quite a few which play very similar to each other. However, this could be considered the tip of the ice berg. FFXI has been out since when? 2002 in japan? Have they even done anything to improve the new player game play experience? I mean sure, you get some ring which boosts your exp gains after you get some conquest points. But you're still taking part in the exact same thing you were doing when the game was released. Maybe if they had changed the game play somehow so you can actually do something different at the beginning of the game (as a brand new player, without grinding and without any actual experience of how the game world works) in order to accomplish your goals as opposed to fighting monsters in auto-combat, it'd be a little more tolerable. Like, why can't I jump on a chocobo and trample some monsters just for fun? Maybe I'd get a little experience out of it.

However, if you did want this to be a FFXI vs WoW debate, you'll be rather disappointed. I haven't played either in a very long time so I'm not very up to speed as to how things work. But I still remember all the bad experiences I've had in FFXI (due to incompetent game design) so there's no shortage of those.

And as for your question at the end. Over 90% of people in real life are usually just regurgitating things they've seen or heard in order to shape their own personality. However, I usually discuss something if it has directly affected me or something I enjoyed.
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« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2007, 06:30:00 AM »

Quote from: "cosapi"
Have they even done anything to improve the new player game play experience?

Actually, yes. The game is consistently being improved. Long time players can tell you how much the game has progressed since its release.
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cosapi
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2008, 09:54:37 AM »

Notice I said "new player experience"?

I just recently played through the beginning of FFXI out of boredom, and I already knew what to expect and yep. In over 5 years, Square hasn't done a damn thing to improve the new player game play experience.

Same shit. And now it's even harder to find a party at 10. (although it's probably more logical to solo to 20 anyways)
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Shiguma
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2008, 10:18:45 AM »

Quote from: "cosapi"
In over 5 years, Square hasn't done a damn thing to improve the new player game play experience.


You're right, they haven't done a damn thing.  Oh, except for...

1.  Anniversary Rings.  30000 free exp/year, usable at any level.
2.  Empress Bands.  7000 free exp/week, usable at any level.
3.  Outpost warps, which revolutionized transportation and allows players to travel to any zone in the game within a couple minutes, maximum.
4.  Chocobo breeding, which revolutionized transportation by providing players with mounts that can be instantly summoned on the field.
5.  Enchanted items and new equipment which is much more powerful than anything which was available circa 2003.
6.  Increased exp gain from low-member parties.
7.  Increased drop rates on the Genkai (Limit Break) items.
8.  Completely removed the linear decrease of TP while healing.

...and that's *not nearly* a complete list.

But thanks for your feedback, Captain Unobservant.
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« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2008, 09:07:34 PM »

I must admit I stick to FFXI more for the people i've come to know in the game than anything else. It's a pretty hard and frustrating game, and that is an understatement.
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