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Author Topic: The Mario Galaxy Thread...  (Read 6384 times)
Prime Mover
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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2007, 01:55:47 PM »

Quote from: "everluck"
Quote from: "Prime Mover"
... Mario Galaxy really feels, to video games as a whole, like what the discovery of fire was to cold people.


LOL... being from Alaska, I can relate. Although, isn't that kind of extreme? Fire, arguably, saved the human race during the ice ages... what does SMG save us from?
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2007, 02:17:30 PM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
Quote from: "everluck"
Quote from: "Prime Mover"
... Mario Galaxy really feels, to video games as a whole, like what the discovery of fire was to cold people.


LOL... being from Alaska, I can relate. Although, isn't that kind of extreme? Fire, arguably, saved the human race during the ice ages... what does SMG save us from?

Bad games.
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« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2007, 03:50:10 PM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
Something can be revolutionary, creative, and still a step down; in fact, that's very common. Usually, the best material is not the most creative, it's the stuff immediately following the most creative works that takes the raw creative ideas, and pollishes them. Mario 3 pushed the 2D Mario gameplay to the limit, and polished it clean. Mario World was basically a slightly different take on the Mario design, with better graphics (about the same amount of pollish, though). Mario 64 had to start over on a lot of things, so it lacked a lot of pollish. Mario Sunshine was flat-out, uninspired (I don't know what happened there), but Mario Galaxy really feels, to Mario 64, like what Mario 3 was to Mario 1.


So, Mario 64 was a step down purely because it lacked the polish that games released later in a console's life had? I don't intend to seem argumentative...but that's hardly a reason to consider something a significant "step down". Other than the lack of polish, what else qualifies it as a step down from the previous entry in the series?
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Murdoc
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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2007, 08:27:52 PM »

I understand your point, but I still disagree. I don't think Mario 64 was unpolished, in my opinion, the things that it discarded from the 2D entries into the series were old tired ideas that had no place in the 3D generation. No longer was it enough to get from one end of the level to the other, it introduced mission based levels that evolved and changed based on the specific star involved. Everything was deeper and more refined; jumping, story, boss battles, graphics, for instance. Everything they did keep made a solid transistion.

Further still, I'm sure that if SM64 had been a 2D(ish) platformer, it would have looked like New Super Mario Bros for the DS. That had the polish and refinement that SM3 had, including the mushroom houses, and all the staples of the 2D Generation. So I ask, which is the stronger game? Super Mario 64 or New Super Mario for the DS? I don't think I even need to tell you which is my pick.

Also. If you're thinking you can't compare a console game to a handheld one, then compare Super Mario 64 DS to it. It's still a stronger game.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2007, 08:58:31 PM »

True. It's all pretty subjective. I guess, for one, I don't understand exactly why so many of the changes HAD to come with the 3D era. Obviously, experimenting with mission-based gameplay, multipul jump styles, deeper gameplay mechanics, etc. would be cool... but I fail to see how those changes had anything to do with 3D.

You want to know the REAL reason that Mario64 had mission-based gameplay? The sad truth is that it was all due to memory problems and level design limitations. Mario 3 and Mario World have something like 70 and 100 levels. 3D level design is infinitely more complex, and takes up a lot more space then a simple 2D chipset map. Mission-based gameplay was a way out of having to make 100 different levels. I think there are only like 14 or so in Mario 64. "Missions" grew out of the multipul exits of Mario World (which can be traced even farther back to a few multipul exits in Mario 3). But I do miss the good old days of "get from one end of the level to the other, but if there happens to be a secret branch, go for it!"

Thankfully, now that Nintendo is so much bigger than it once was, and they've switched to optical media, creating 100 3D levels isn't out of the question. This is one of the reasons why I like Mario Galaxy so much, it's sort of halfway inbetween Mario 64 and Mario World: only 1-4 missions per level instead of 6-7, and LOTS more levels. Mario 64 had a lot of repeat missions. IE: "slide down the ice slide to the bottom for a star", and then "race the penguin down the ice slide for another star!" Another great one was "get to the end of the level for a star", and then "get to the end of the level and fight the boss, for another star!" I really felt cheated by stuff like that kind of artificial game lengthening. Mario 64 just felt so small in comparison, since there wasn't a brand new level waiting for me every time I finished a course. Now, Mario Galaxy has, what, 40 levels or so? Starting to reach back to Mario 3 territory in terms of numbers of levels, and that's a good thing.
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« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2007, 09:18:46 AM »

I agree with Prime Mover in regards to Mario 64. I don't think it's fair to judge it against the 2D games, but I agree that it was repetitive. Galaxy is the better game by a longshot for me.

My biggest problem with Mario 64 was the lack of polish. I realize it was the first 3D game with controls that worked well, but I played it after I played Ocarina of Time. My standards were a little bit too high, I guess. Got 120 stars and still wonder what all the fuss is about.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2007, 11:29:32 PM »

Quote from: "everluck"
biggest problem with Mario 64 was the lack of polish. I realize it was the first 3D game with controls that worked well, but I played it after I played Ocarina of Time. My standards were a little bit too high, I guess. Got 120 stars and still wonder what all the fuss is about.


Mario + 3D = fuss

Let's be realistic, even if it was the most shit-tastic game of all time (which it wasn't), it would still get fuss. Think about it, it worked for Sonic. To this day, many people call Sonic Adventure "the last great Sonic game", regardless of the fact that it was a steaming pile of crap compared to the previous games... the fact that it was 3D made some people look the other way. Although I'd argue that Sonic & Nuckles (standalone) wasn't much better.

But yeah, I mean, Mario 64 has some amazing levels. All the bowser stages were genious, the underground lake was a gem, and overall, there were some really fantastic things, but the game was incredibly tedious. Huge levels (like Hazy Maze Cave) made you do the same things over and over again. I remember that about after the 3rd star on Hazy Maze, it's just not fun anymore, even if it's a great level design. I don't think any other game has been so successful at having incredible level design, and make you never want to go back to those stages ever again.

Zelda and Metroid made far better transitions to 3D, only if because their original games didn't call for so much content (Link to the Past = ~12 dungeons, Super Metroid = 5 areas, Mario World = ~100 Levels!)

BTW: Anyone who's played the Toy level in Mario Galaxy... anyone else get an extreme "Shadow of the Colossus" vibe? The level kinda blows, but the giant robot, that was badass!
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Alucard von Elru
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2007, 12:24:37 AM »

...

...

Damnit I need a Wii. I keep reading and re-reading the Eurogamer review. You are all such teases.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2007, 09:42:34 PM »

haha ;)
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GrimReality
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OK, options aren't SO bad

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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2007, 03:39:53 PM »

Quote from: "Alucard von Elru"
...

...

Damnit I need a Wii. I keep reading and re-reading the Eurogamer review. You are all such teases.



Me and you both, brotha.
I gave up on trying to find one for now. I bought the Fam a DS instead. I'll pick up a Wii in a few months when they are back on the shelves.
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Jimmy
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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2007, 04:05:05 PM »

Quote from: "GrimReality"
Quote from: "Alucard von Elru"
...

...

Damnit I need a Wii. I keep reading and re-reading the Eurogamer review. You are all such teases.



Me and you both, brotha.
I gave up on trying to find one for now. I bought the Fam a DS instead. I'll pick up a Wii in a few months when they are back on the shelves.

Your local Target store on Sunday mornings guys. Especially if the Wii is pictured in the Sunday ad that goes out with most newspapers. They'll sometimes have them sitting in the back for over a week just waiting for them to appear in an upcoming ad so they don't get hammered for false advertising. Sucks, but true.
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Alucard von Elru
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« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2007, 10:39:47 PM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
haha ;)


GAh, you suck! :P

Actually, it's not a matter of finding a Wii that's my current problem, but rather affording one (the same goes for the 360 and PS3). I should be able to get one sometime shortly after Christmas, but until then I'm trying my best not to spend too much money on myself, and more on my family. Of all the shopping I have to do, I've only actually gotten one thing so far, so...
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2007, 01:39:18 PM »

"Oh Noes! I can't afford a Wii! I guess I'll have to go back to playing my Play Station 3 and eating fish eggs.

"Pthhhht! Jog on!"
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« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2007, 10:38:27 AM »

Quote from: "Losfer"
Quote from: "Prime Mover"
the airship music from Mario 3


I fucking came.


I got wet every time a retro theme came on.
Anyways.

THe game is fantastic, and the best word to sum it up is easily: amazing.
Nevertheless, I do have a few problems with it.  Some of the star tasks are just tedious and annoying, with little to no room for error (fuck you drip drop galaxy, go suck one).  That and Rosalina reading a book about herself put me off thinking she's a selfish wench. AH well.

I love the galaxies though, nice variety, and (as said earlier) simply amazing visuals.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2007, 04:43:04 PM »

Roselina's VA was horrid. I was pretty shocked. For a AAA level game, 4 years in the making (or whatever), I'm dumbfounded they did such a terrible job on the voiceacting. And it wasn't just the actor, either, it was the production. Her voice sounded like it was coming out of a tin can, while Mario's was fine. Did the Baton Kaitos sound engineers break into the studio late at night or something?

However, Roselina reading a book about herself didn't bother me. Partially because when I was little, my mom used to sometimes tell stories about herself when she was little, instead of a bedtime story. It's actually a great way for parents to bond with their kids, by letting them realize that they were kids once too.

Unfortunately, Roselina's demeanor came across as stiff and cold, they didn't do a very good job with her, overall.
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