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Author Topic: new FFXIII trailer  (Read 6179 times)
Marshmallow
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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2007, 10:50:48 PM »

Quote from: "Hidoshi"
Meh. While I do like the world designs and technology demonstrated throughout is damned impressive, the characters look really, really unremarkable. Like, "we were made for FFIII" unremarkable. They're not bad per se, but Lightning amongst others looks like a backup NPC in some town somewhere.


At least to me it feels like that's a continuing trend from FFXII. None of the characters there looked very interesting at all, IMO. However, I think there's some amount of improvement for XIII, it's just that as Square begins designing more "realistic" characters, they've tended to look much more normal, and therefore stand out less. Still, better than everyone having Seymour hair. . .
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2007, 02:02:10 AM »

Quote from: "Marshmallow"
Quote from: "Hidoshi"
Meh. While I do like the world designs and technology demonstrated throughout is damned impressive, the characters look really, really unremarkable. Like, "we were made for FFIII" unremarkable. They're not bad per se, but Lightning amongst others looks like a backup NPC in some town somewhere.


At least to me it feels like that's a continuing trend from FFXII. None of the characters there looked very interesting at all, IMO. However, I think there's some amount of improvement for XIII, it's just that as Square begins designing more "realistic" characters, they've tended to look much more normal, and therefore stand out less. Still, better than everyone having Seymour hair. . .


I reallly hated that about Nomura's designs.  I kinda liked how FF12 has more realistic designs instead of blue zig-zags and the like.
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Bloodstar6078
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2007, 03:02:25 AM »

Quote from: "Marshmallow"
Quote from: "Hidoshi"
Meh. While I do like the world designs and technology demonstrated throughout is damned impressive, the characters look really, really unremarkable. Like, "we were made for FFIII" unremarkable. They're not bad per se, but Lightning amongst others looks like a backup NPC in some town somewhere.


At least to me it feels like that's a continuing trend from FFXII. None of the characters there looked very interesting at all, IMO. However, I think there's some amount of improvement for XIII, it's just that as Square begins designing more "realistic" characters, they've tended to look much more normal, and therefore stand out less. Still, better than everyone having Seymour hair. . .

I see what Hidoshi is saying and agree with with Marshmallow that it looks better than many of the FFX and X-2 designs. Personally though I really like the realistic look better. Characters don't have to be super-flashy to be likable. For example look at a lot of the characters in FFVIII. Most of them were pretty normal looking and IMO it hasn't made them any less likable or memorable to me. In fact VIII is still one of my favorite games.

Also the fact that FFXIII is giving me a FFVIII vibe is really getting me excited. I can't wait for this game.
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Sapphire_Fate
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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2007, 12:54:32 PM »

Quote from: "Hidoshi"
Meh. While I do like the world designs and technology demonstrated throughout is damned impressive, the characters look really, really unremarkable. Like, "we were made for FFIII" unremarkable. They're not bad per se, but Lightning amongst others looks like a backup NPC in some town somewhere.

I'm not really seeing this as much of a problem.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2007, 01:57:28 PM »

It's not the "realism" that's the issue. Even with realism there are certain things that make a character stand out. All of FFXII's characters stood out in one way or another. Not in the plastic way Nomura would design them, but in the way Amano might. Yes they fit in with their world and don't rely on crazy patterns and whacked out hair to show up, but they also don't look like NPCs.

Quite frankly, the XIII designs so far either look a) like NPCs, or b) Advent Children clones. Neither is particularly good.
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Sapphire_Fate
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2007, 02:01:25 PM »

I actually think Lightning is different from the norm... stylish in the way FFX-2 Yuna was, but also, dare I say it, elven in her looks. Especially if you look at her facial structure and ears.

Plus, god dangit, a female main is something that's been needed in the FF franchise for a long time. Like, an actual one, not one you have to debate over(like in FF12).
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2007, 03:33:08 PM »

I agree with the elven comment, but that doesn't help matters. For comparison: Fran isn't unique as a Viera because she's a Viera. Physically several things help Fran stand out. One is the use of black. While most Viera wear white, Fran is dressed entirely in dark colours, contrasting with her white hair. That alone helps her stand out from her peers.

Let's look at Balthier. Balthier has a style to him despite looking rather normal. The arc-rimmed vest is extremely striking as a "unique" piece, as is the expression he always wears. The rings on his hand help, as well as the very stylish gun. When put together, Balthier's ensemble screams style and opulence.

To further the example, let's go to FFX and Wakka. Wakka is dressed in similar fashion to all his buddies on the Aurochs, but he stands out for two simple reasons. The first is that he's larger than the rest, and the second is his ridiculous hair. That one spike of hair makes him spring forward as a main character.

Lightning by contrast has nothing particularly fancy beyond her blade. The pale red of her hair is in fact a footnote of NPC design: Wash out the hair. But even if it wasn't, her costume throws her in the same pile with XII's Ashe (which, by the way, is another character I feel looked too much like an NPC). Lightning, like Ashe, looks all too "ordinary". Ashe was at least helped a little by the miniskirt, but even then it's a very pale attempt to gussy her up.

Another major issue is the lack of facial communication. Lightning has plenty of screen time to communicate visually, but it falls short. There's no attitude, no giving or receiving. It's more like a cheap Korean MMO figure just looked down her blade than a Final Fantasy heroine. Maybe that has something to do with her personality, but even then we got more out of emo-kid Cloud or the company-hating Squall.

It's poor character design. Washed out colours, lack of expression, and an unremarkable design standard kill Lightning where she stands.

A similar problem comes up with the Versus protagonist, who is only barely better than Lightning when it comes to design. He suffers being a clone of Advent Children's Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz, as well as Organisation XIII (yadda yadda, possible connections). While it's an acceptable look, the red eyes are a really bad touch. It's a well-known though unwritten rule that no one should have red eyes and be angst-ridden in the same design. It's been done, it's old hat, etc. Too soon, basically. Plus the Cloud-with-a-dozen-swords trick is hard to swallow being that it was done so recently by the same creators.

What does save the Versus protagonist is the use of bold tones and the blue tint of his hair. That alone separates him from being a Sephiroth derivative like the Advent Children bunch, and while it places him closer to Organisation XIII, lacking the hood and facial tattoos also helps.

In the end, I like the Versus protagonist better from a design standpoint where strength is concerned, though really neither does anything well. Lightning is a ghost of a character, bleached out into an NPC, while the Versus protagonist borrows quite a bit too much from his antecessors.
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Sapphire_Fate
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2007, 03:38:23 PM »

I can't help but think you're reading too much into these trailers. For the most part, they are teasers.

"No facial expression from Lightning"? Did you miss the surprised look she had when the beast was running down the highway? The sudden realization in her face when she's completely surrounded?

You're kind of judging this character, as well as the Versus main, waaay before you've even played the game. I hate to use cliche sayings, but... "don't judge a book by it's cover."
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2007, 03:42:57 PM »

That's not what I mean by an expression. Any character can have those expressions. It's a matter of communicating the character.

And yes, it is early, but as someone who does design as part of his career, it isn't hard to call out poor usage when I see it. :P
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macirex
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2007, 07:54:41 PM »

Personally they all look great... the important thing is the feeling you are having while playing the game... and back then when I was playing ff7, lunar, wild arms... the characters were simple pixels and they knew how to show feelings... like real life!
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2007, 05:48:39 PM »

Quote from: "Hidoshi"
A similar problem comes up with the Versus protagonist, who is only barely better than Lightning when it comes to design. He suffers being a clone of Advent Children's Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz, as well as Organisation XIII (yadda yadda, possible connections). While it's an acceptable look, the red eyes are a really bad touch. It's a well-known though unwritten rule that no one should have red eyes and be angst-ridden in the same design.


Uhh how can you already call him "angst-ridden" when not much has been shown other than a trailer?

Sullen perhaps.  To me, it just seems like he's thinking about the events that are about(or already have) to transpire.  At least going by Chris's preview.
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2007, 10:32:53 AM »

The problem with the character designs is that as they get more realistic, they also veer off more and more into GQ territory. Is there *anyone* in the three most recent FF games (including FF 13) that you would consider "normal" looking?

It'd be nice to see some variety other than changing the main girl's hair colour from black (FF 8-10) to light brown (FF 12 & 13).
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Sapphire_Fate
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2007, 05:53:21 PM »

Quote from: "Lard"
The problem with the character designs is that as they get more realistic, they also veer off more and more into GQ territory. Is there *anyone* in the three most recent FF games (including FF 13) that you would consider "normal" looking?

It'd be nice to see some variety other than changing the main girl's hair colour from black (FF 8-10) to light brown (FF 12 & 13).

What? Lightning's hair is NOT light brown.
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Lard
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2007, 06:54:04 PM »

Quote from: "Sapphire_Fate"

What? Lightning's hair is NOT light brown.


What colour is it then?
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Professor Gast
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2007, 07:24:56 PM »

Mark: Supposedly the eye color of Final Fantasy Versus XIII's protagonist does change, depending on the circumstances. If I remember correctly, it will change from blue to red, when he is using certain moves in battle or something like that.
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