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Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
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Author Topic: Worst Hero & Villain  (Read 14649 times)
Dice
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« on: January 08, 2008, 10:56:59 PM »

Yeah, its a valid and (IMO) good question...I just hope ode-y won't kill me for the slight theft. =)

I'm pretty pissy when it comes to the 14-and-under-year-old protagonists, and villains without motives.  Unfortunately, I was just called off my PC and will have to reply sometime other than now...

but, POST AWAY! x)
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Shiguma
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2008, 11:25:32 PM »

Worst Hero:  Um... Tidus (Final Fantasy X) immediately comes to mind.  I found his personally more than a little annoying, and in the import version, his speech style is really... ugh.  He puts "-ssu" (shortened/slang version of "desu") on the end of every sentence to try and sound cool, but it makes him sound more like a dumb teenager.

Worst Villain:  I have a *lot* of these... basically, any villain who doesn't have motives which I can sympathize with is completely boring in my book.  As are villains who use cliche methods of achieving their goals ("The world is a corrupt place, so I'll change things by [resurrecting an evil god!]") and so forth.  I want to feel like the antagonist is a human being w/ good reasons for being bastardly, not just a crazed lunatic.  Many people like Kefka, but honestly, I think he's a pretty "meh" villain overall.
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Dice
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2008, 12:36:23 AM »

WORST: As Shigu said, Tight-Ass from FFX gets the top cheese.  He's childish, a fruitcake, whiny, but still manages to master a sword in 2 seconds and win Yuna.  Why Yuna?  You could do way better.  
There really wasn't one point where I started to like him or even sided along with any of his hero-ideals or traits (if any).  Its bad enough he's wearing bright yellow overalls. Fucken loser.
What I wonder most of all is how does Squeenix go from a majestic beauty like Terra, to a sports-star names Tidus?

RUNNERUP: Jude (Wild Arms 4); fits in with my young-protagonist category.  Annoying voice, silly outfit, and kinda of annoying....all the time.

--

WORST VILLAIN: ExDeath (FFV) for a stupid name, Seymour (FFX) for a stupid hairdo, and Necron (FFIX) for being there for no reason.

Moreover, the villains of Kingdom Hearts annoyed me.  Maybe its just me getting older, but the entire storyline kinda went over my head, so I have no clue what they're fighting and gabbing on about half the time.
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2008, 01:12:18 AM »

Quote from: "Dice"
Moreover, the villains of Kingdom Hearts annoyed me.  Maybe its just me getting older, but the entire storyline kinda went over my head, so I have no clue what they're fighting and gabbing on about half the time.

I think you're more likely to understand things better when you're older if anything. Maybe if you're old enough that your brain is seriously deteriorating, but even that's no real guarantee. I haven't played through KH2 yet, but I'd just ascribe that to the story being full of nonsensical shit!

My worst heroes/villains? I actually dunno what to pick, I guess I haven't stuck with games that'd really qualify for that long, plus some games where I didn't mind or liked I may hate now or vice versa. Shion's probably the least liked protagonist, she's too much of an idiot given her job and whatnot, although I suppose some of the shit she pulls would be mistakes people would realistically do in her position. For villains, Seymour is pretty lame and has one of the stupidest haircuts ever. Really though, a lot of RPG heroes/villains are boring fuckoffs I can't really care about, so I'm seconding what Shig said about villains.

A final note in regards to Kefka though: I think it's more his feats that are memorable than his personality or motives. He performs stuff not commonly seen in RPGs or at least not in such a manner.

Edit: Cleaning up this post. I really should re-read my posts more often, I've been making more of an effort!
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2008, 01:55:12 AM »

Worst hero - Squall.
Worst villain - The chick from Final Fantasy 8.
I wanted to punch them in the face.
Squall makes Tidus look like a grown up.
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2008, 05:19:21 AM »

Yeah, the FF 'heroes' from VII onwards are all under-developed, whinging little crybaby, Emo boys, with the possible exception of Zidane Tribal. There are lots of examples of young heroes written well out there (the Suikoden series springs to mind...), it's just a shame Squeenix sees fit to ignore this and go for a more outrageous hair style/outfit/weapon combo every time.

Villains are also as easy to screw up. I loved Magus, and was almost more disappointed that he wasn't the main villain of CT than surprised and by the fact that he joined you. That's how you do a bad guy right. OK, so he had the whole summoning a dark deity (or so he thought) thing going on, but he most certainly had his reasons for doing so!

So I've written a whole paragraph about how a villain should be done, I can't single out one that fits my bad guy done bad model. Well, not unless Sephiroth counts. But I think by the end of this thread, we're all gonna get bored of Sephiroth bashing!
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2008, 07:07:32 AM »

About Kefka, I think the only reason why he doesn't fall into the "worst villain" category is that it feels like the creators knew exactly how idiotic he was when they created him, and they're just having fun at trying to create the most unlikeable person ever. Seriously, he's the only villain I know of where there's NOTHING to like about him: he's evil, he's insane, he's a coward, he's not charismatic, he wears a silly outfit, he jumps up and down and whines like a baby, and to top it off, he has a ridiculously annoying laugh. Even his henchmen hate him. He's not simply a villain to be hated, but also one to be laughed at.

You don't find very many of them around, so at least he gets points for originality. And as I said, it's just refreshing to feel like the creators were purposefully trying to create a total pathetic loser, unlike Titus, where I think they were actually trying to create a likable person and... well.. EPIC FAIL!

That said, Kefka will never make my "best villains" list, because he's completely one dimensional... he's basically an archetype to end all archetypes. It was fun for a game, but I'm sure glad noone's tried to copy him.
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2008, 09:38:55 AM »

If anyone read my review of Contact for the DS, you'd see that Terry is the first protagonist I can think of that sucks.  Other mute protagonists have personality and some substance to them but he has none of these things.  I'll take a spiky haired, soliloquy-spouting amnesiac over some paper doll cutout with less personality than cardboard any day.  Even an unlikeable personality is better than no personality at all.  

Case in point: I hated Shion (Xenosaga) with a passion and Rinoa from FF8 as well (though nowhere near as much as General Mortars did.)  Both Shion and Rinoa are completely useless simpering weenie chicks.  But I endured Shion in three Xenosaga games and Rinoa in two playthroughs of FF8.  Contact?  One playthrough (I think it was 18 hours) and I was done.  Those 18 hours with Terry were more painful than the greater number of hours with the aforementioned weenie chicks.  See, I found it fun to love-to-hate Shion and Rinoa because they at least had something (even if it was a something I strongly disliked.)  Whereas with Terry, he had absolutely nothing and I was just completely bored out of my mind with him.  

FF8's villains were terrible for similar reasons.  They were all tacked-on, cookie-cutter, paper doll villains that didn't do a darn thing.  After such a strong villain like Sephiroth in FF7, having a handful of super weak, tacked on villains with zero substance in FF8 was disappointing.  The writers put so much effort into fleshing out and developing Squall as a case study that the lack of effort put into the villains and most of the other characters was apparent.
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2008, 01:05:33 PM »

Worst Hero:  Whatshisface from Tales of Eternia.  It's hard for a single character to stand out in a series that seems to be dedicated to having the dullest characters in the history of Japanese RPGs, but at least I remember Stahn and Lloyd's names.

Wost Villains:  Any of those Final Fantasy-like Nomura rejects found in Kingdom Hearts 2.  I never knew most of their names, and I never gave a fuck.
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2008, 02:43:11 PM »

His name was Reid. I remember it well, because the other characters liked yelling his name in a this-is-the-first-time-I've-seen-the-script kind of way.
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2008, 03:43:58 PM »

Worst Hero - Claude from Star Ocean 2.  Perhaps a combination of the bad lines and the absolutely horrific voice acting made this guy a mental scar on my gaming history.

"My Strength!"
"Unexpectedly Weak"

and of course

"That's somewhere around eighty points!"

Worst Villain - The main villain of Wild Arms 2. *spoiler I guess*

The main antagonist being -

Code:
A parallel universe trying to...uh... well i wasn't really sure what was going on.  There really was no clear antagonist, except for the final boss. That being your typical all powerful demon sealed away blah blah blah.
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2008, 04:07:01 PM »

I think the best villains are sympathetic ones. But at the same time, if you try and play the sympathy card and don't deliver the results are horrible and you end up with the worst. So on that note, I'd say the worst of them is Alfina's brother in grandia III. I can't go into great detail because honestly I don't remember the plot that well. But I remember the game really wanted me to give a fuck about him and I just couldn't. And the more they tried without backing it up with any substance the more and more annoyed I got.

 For heroes. Well, I want to say all the Wesley Crusher's of the RPG world:The kids that just don't belong there. But while I want to give the award to one of the Tidus' or Vaans, they aren't the worst.

 The worst is Virginia Maxwell. You just can't put a female as the lead character and then give her every weak jrpg female trait. It's bad enough as a supporting character, but as the leader it just does not work. At all.
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2008, 05:13:44 PM »

Heroes:

Least favorite heroes in JRPGs are generally silent protagonists. Why? well, in a western RPG, you usually get control over how the character develops, either gameplay was or storywise. Most JRPGs don't let you have that sort of freedom. So basically, Chrono, Adol, and pretty much every Ryu are on here. Who else? McDohl, I guess. I'm less critical of Serge because's there's some inkling that he has a personality and you could probably come up with a reason for him being silent, but still, no. It's goofy.

Exceptions here being Ness and various guys from Dragon Quest for reasons that would go better in the *other* thread. Oh, and various links.

Soooo. What else! Moving away from silent protags, now, I'm going to toss in everyone from Phantasy Star 2 and 3 save for Nei and the robot peoples from PS3.

That vampire guy from Legacy of Kain. How am I supposed to care about THAT guy?

Villains:

Villains mostly serve the function of that thing you kill at the end so I generally don't care if they're poorly developed.
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2008, 05:35:46 PM »

The worst "hero" ever is Squall.  I swear to God, if he was real, I would have socked him whenever he opened his mouth.  It's wrong to have a member of My Chemical Romance in a game for any reason.  Tidus was fucking awesome compared to him.

Worst villain?  Seymour from FFX.  Wow, what a crappy antagonist.  Why was he the bad guy anyway?  I don't remember a discernable motive or a memorable line about the guy.  He was just the gay blue haired Sephiroth with big hands and ugly cock veins on his face.
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2008, 05:40:31 PM »

Quote from: "Raze"


 The worst is Virginia Maxwell. You just can't put a female as the lead character and then give her every weak jrpg female trait. It's bad enough as a supporting character, but as the leader it just does not work. At all.


I disagree. She wasn't the white mage or whimpy character at all. She was the lead who wanted to explore and make the world right. She was one of the better melee fighters in the party as well.
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