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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Worst Hero & Villain  (Read 14886 times)
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2008, 06:36:31 PM »

Squall never actually complains out loud in the entire game. I'm reading a script right now trying to verify this and, er, it definitely seems to be the case. Except in a certain scene towards the mid-point with Ellone, but that seems like a reasonable cause to blow up.

Anyway, the My Chemical Romance comment makes me think people are implying 'emo.' As in, whiny or whatever. I'm reading the script right now and you could maybe make a case for him being a dick to everyone, but, uh, honestly, it's the other characters that tend to whine, and that's why Squall's being a dick.

Except you also have to consider that there are several instance where you can choose his response and you can either pick the jackass or nice response, so, uh...

Although you really have to consider that people tend to think things like that -- bizarre, contradictory, and really stupid stuff. I'm sure that if most RPGs let you see a characters' thought to that extent, you'd hate them too.
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Tomara
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2008, 09:11:02 AM »

Quote from: "daschrier"
Quote from: "Raze"


 The worst is Virginia Maxwell. You just can't put a female as the lead character and then give her every weak jrpg female trait. It's bad enough as a supporting character, but as the leader it just does not work. At all.


I disagree. She wasn't the white mage or whimpy character at all. She was the lead who wanted to explore and make the world right. She was one of the better melee fighters in the party as well.


I agree with you disagreeing. Virginia seemed liked a real young woman compared to many other female characters I've seen in RPG's. Yes, she was inexperienced and some of her ideals were kind of childlike, but that doesn't mean she was weak.
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Bloodstar6078
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2008, 03:22:36 PM »

Quote
As in, whiny or whatever. I'm reading the script right now and you could maybe make a case for him being a dick to everyone, but, uh, honestly, it's the other characters that tend to whine, and that's why Squall's being a dick.

I agree completely. Honestly I don't know why I never noticed it before but in my latest replay of the game I noticed just how much of a dick he was in the first half of the game. It was actually pretty fucking funny.

Quote
I agree with you disagreeing. Virginia seemed liked a real young woman compared to many other female characters I've seen in RPG's. Yes, she was inexperienced and some of her ideals were kind of childlike, but that doesn't mean she was weak.

Agreed. Virginia+Gatling=win. (Clive+Finest Arts=EPIC WIN).

Worst Hero: Tidus from FFX
Worst Villians: Yu Yevon, if you can even call it a villian. It just appears out of nowhere and kills shit for apparently no reason.
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everluck
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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2008, 05:27:11 PM »

Worst hero would probably go to the the lead guy in PSU. Nothing redeemable about him.

I might go with the lead of Enchanted Arms just because of his horrible voice.

Worst villain would be Necron of FF9. Totally random.
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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2008, 05:42:44 PM »

Quote from: "everluck"
Worst villain would be Necron of FF9. Totally random.


Necron's not really a villain. More like a representation of all the fear of death that had welled up inside Kuja. They just wanted a ridiculously large and ethereal end boss to stick in.

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Tridius
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2008, 06:26:17 PM »

Worst Hero. I'm going to have to say Elc from Arc the Lad 2 Sure he was good character. but there were quite a couple of scenes that  really getting on my nerves.


Worst Villian: Gadel. (Arc the Lad 2) Oh man this villian is truely a coward. Even his generals and the main villian were much more tolerable.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2008, 09:22:59 PM »

Quote from: "Ramza"
Necron's not really a villain. More like a representation of all the fear of death that had welled up inside Kuja. They just wanted a ridiculously large and ethereal end boss to stick in.


And that's precisely why he's so terrible. I'm gonna have to agree with Everluck on this one. Necron was a slap in the face against actually having an honest-to-god empathetic villain (Kuja). When I played FF9, I was thinking, "Finally! Square, you did it! You were able to create a "human" final-antagonist who actually had some depth." Having Necron was basically like saying, "oops, sorry, did you really think we were going to give you an empathetic final-villain... blasphemy!" I wanted to kick the TV in. The one redeaming thing about having Necron, though, is that Kuja gets to sacrifice himself for you, which adds one more little redeaming trait to his character. But the thing is, I want an empathetic character who's the FINAL villain, for a change, I think we can handle it.
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2008, 11:50:11 PM »

Honestly...  I've never liked the randomly appearing final boss.  You spend your entire game chasing after one guy to only find out that someone else you have never fucking heard of is calling the shots.

Lame generic badguy.  Yuck.
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everluck
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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2008, 11:54:51 PM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
And that's precisely why he's so terrible. I'm gonna have to agree with Everluck on this one. Necron was a slap in the face against actually having an honest-to-god empathetic villain (Kuja). When I played FF9, I was thinking, "Finally! Square, you did it! You were able to create a "human" final-antagonist who actually had some depth." Having Necron was basically like saying, "oops, sorry, did you really think we were going to give you an empathetic final-villain... blasphemy!" I wanted to kick the TV in. The one redeaming thing about having Necron, though, is that Kuja gets to sacrifice himself for you, which adds one more little redeaming trait to his character. But the thing is, I want an empathetic character who's the FINAL villain, for a change, I think we can handle it.

Didn't want to kick my TV in, but I was pretty let down when Necron popped out. Like you said, Kuja was actually a fleshed out villain with reasons for doing what he was doing. You beat him and you're treated to a huge blue demon spirit thing moaning and yelling incoherent shit like "I'm the manifestation of dead things RAARRRR." If he were a mid-game boss whoopdie shit, that's fine. It's Final Fantasy and there are plenty of ridiculous things like that. But once you hit that last level it seems Square's narrowed down the villain to one bad dude and then bam: Necron.
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Ashton
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2008, 12:50:49 AM »

I don't know why everyone disliked Tidus. He was annoying atthe first half of the game but by the end I found him one of the strongest leads out of any game I've played.

Anyway, my pick for weakest lead goes to Dart from Legend of Dragoon. Not only does he act like generic hero guy, he does it with all the memorability of a NPC. Jesus.

Weakest villain would probably be Beatrice or whoever from WA3. "HAHAHA WEEP IN DESPAIR AS I MAKE YOU FIGHT THE WORLD, WHICH HAS TEN DIFFERENT FORMS." She's one of the most effective vilains ever in the most ineffective way.
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everluck
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2008, 02:43:29 AM »

Quote from: "Leyviur"
I don't know why everyone disliked Tidus. He was annoying atthe first half of the game but by the end I found him one of the strongest leads out of any game I've played.

I don't get the Tidus hate either. Sure he was a little whiny, but not really, and definitely not as bad as many other JRPG leads.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2008, 03:53:55 AM »

My big gripe about him is that he's a total meat-head. He's like a jock and a bratty kid all rolled into one. One of his victory cheer is even "thinking isn't getting us anywhere." Basically, he's my antithesis. Sure, he's brave, and he's dependable, but he promotes a ridiculous "act first, think later" attitude that really pisses me off. Top that off with being a hyperactive brat  who's you're supposed to be able to empathize with, and that's what you get.

Basically, he's a lot like Zell. I don't mind Zell because Zell's pretty much just comic relief, and a wild character to add some spice to the cast. But Zell is likable, even in his hyperactivity because he doesn't usually take things personally.

In a sad way, both of them remind me of aspects of myself that I hate about myself. I can cope with Zell, but I just can't warm up to Titus.
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Red Phire
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2008, 08:06:59 AM »

Worst Hero:

Tidus - A whiny annoying little turd.

Worst Villain - The bad guy from Suikoden IV, he just seemed like a slightly more intelligent Frankenstein.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2008, 10:15:30 AM »

Pat, I disagree with your read of Necron.  For me, Kuja could not be the final boss because even if he dies, Terra would still chow down on Gaia, like how Unicron or Galactus eats planets since it is a conscious being.  So to me, the party still had to kill this worldlike planet-devouring entitiy and Necron was like the core of it.  All that jibberish Necron said?  I thought it was just stuff to try and make the predator intimidate the prey for an easier kill.  But it backfired.

When Zidane defeated Kuja, he saved Kuja.  When Zidane and company defeated Necron, they saved their home world of Gaia.  Even at the very end, Necron decides, "okay, this prey is too strong for me to try to kill and eat.  I'd better move on to an easy prey planet to eat."  

In any case, this is how the final battle against Kuja should have gone down: http://mooncalf.org/library/parody/eikosboyfriend.html (EDIT: This is probably my favorite of Mooncalf's parody fics.  Be warned, other fanfics on her site are NSFW.)  

And I think the fact that Tidus is a jock is what divides people on him.  But to me, that protagonists like him and Squall evoke such strong ire out of people makes them appear more "real" because let's face it, not every hero is likeable and we often do not get to choose who our heroes will be (I'm talking in real life as well as fiction.)  But you know, as much ire as Tidus and Squall may draw, you can't deny that they are memorable protagonists.  They remain talked about for years after their time.
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Alucard von Elru
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2008, 01:40:25 PM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"

In any case, this is how the final battle against Kuja should have gone down: http://mooncalf.org/library/parody/eikosboyfriend.html


LMAO XD "I'll be good! I'll wear pants!" Thank you so much for posting that! :D

Anyway, I agree with everything you just said, really. When viewing it within that context, Necron makes perfect sense. Tidus and Squall are two of my favorite protagonists, and one of the main reasons is because of the conflict they inspire so many years later. They were memorable and never, ever boring. They were also very flawed, which I felt made them actually human and therefore relatable on some level.
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