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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Author Topic: New FFXIII & Versus Scans  (Read 32265 times)
Prime Mover
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« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2008, 03:39:17 PM »

Masamune hit the nail on the head... I was going to mentioned it until he came along. Although I prefer all FF games to be unique worlds, the FF7 situation *IS* different from the FNC project.

FF7 was a cash cow. They realized that it had been almost 10 years, and the FF7 fanboyism still hadn't died, so they decided to cash in on it. Plain and simple. There was no: "FF7 was an inspiring game for us to make, so we thought it would be interesting to re-explore the world". No... most Square personel have testified that FF7 was like pulling teeth to create, it was a prototype for the 3D era, and they were happy to move on to other projects. They re-openned the wound because they sick there B-Teams on a few smaller projects, slap some FF7 references in it, and know that they have a fanbase already in place to buy it.

FNC, on the other hand, was planned from the beginning. There's no clear-cut business gain for doing this. Using the same world could possibly hurt sales, making each game seem less significant... and by no means are these projects going to be made any simpler or cheaper by the fact that they take place in the same world. My guess is that the planners just got carried away, and decided that they had too many ideas to fit into one game, and split it into many projects. I think they should have just taken the best of the best ideas, made one cohesive story, and just leave it at that... but I'm not completely apposed to series.

The Ivalice Alliance, on the other hand, seemed like an accident of sorts. FFT took place in Ivalice, and then when they went to make FFT:A, they decided that the next tactical game may as well take place in the same world. Suddenly, you had a series of connected games. Who knows why FF12 took place in Ivalice... maybe the creators had fun with the world and decided to explore it more, but I don't think there was much financial gain to it. It's not like 95% of all FFT/TA players aren't already going to go buy FF12 regardless of what world it's in... and it's not like setting it in Ivalice made the project cheaper. Sometimes jumping off points are helpful for creators though. I'm not going to piss and moan about the whole IA concept.

FFX-2, on the other hand, was a cash-cow, and a bad one at that, just like the FF7 thing. FF12:Revinant Wings was also a cash cow, but one that just HAPPENED to not suck.

But I'm really hoping that when FF14 comes around, they'll cut with all these games that take place in the same world. For one thing, games which use the same world tend to put a damper on world maps (because noone wants to make 4 games with the same world map). And DAMNIT, I want my world map exploration back!!!
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Bernhardt
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« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2008, 03:48:00 PM »

En mon opinion, Dirge of Cerberus and Kingdom Hearts were marketing attempts, nothing more.

Dirge of Cerberus, an attempt to turn TPS enthusiasts into FF followers, and Kingdom Hearts, an attempt to turn Disney kids into creatures of a similar breed; that's en mon opinion, anyway.

But who bought these games? FF fans, and really no one else. If anything, Dirge of Cerberus made me think I can play TPS games...but I can't, only DoC, because it's so basic an TPS.

FFX-2 REALLY worked out for the fangirl crowd for some reason. (Alright, finally something that says it's okay for me to look like a slut!)

The FFVII compilation does little to clear up unanswered questions, but instead brings up a slew of whole new stupid ones; just remake the damn game, and do a better job translating it and tying up loose-ends, instead of trying to create a bunch of damn Sephiroth imitations.

...

As for FFXIII and FFXIII Versus, what I see happening is how some games allow you to choose a different character to experience the story from; what FFXIII seems to be doing is giving a separate game to each character, though, the stories will be set so many years apart from each other.
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Eusis
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« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2008, 03:52:20 PM »

In the case of the Ivalice Alliance: FFT, VS, and XII were all Matsuno creations, and I think he just wanted one world built for his Square games. In fact, I think it kinda shows how SE's handling of the Ivalice stuff contrasted with Matsuno's in that the two games made since his departure were directly following up on FFXII.
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Lard
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« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2008, 05:07:21 PM »

Quote from: "Bernhardt"


As for FFXIII and FFXIII Versus, what I see happening is how some games allow you to choose a different character to experience the story from; what FFXIII seems to be doing is giving a separate game to each character, though, the stories will be set so many years apart from each other.


I'll have no issue with this as long as the stories are interesting.

I'm hoping that in planning them together, they'll have a cohesiveness that the FF7 project does not.
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PKProductions
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« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2008, 05:19:00 PM »

oh my god, im laughing so hard right now, man can anyone else tell when im being serious and when im only joking around? like my last post I WAS joking trying to lighten the mood, apparently no one wants the mood lightened. Whooo the penical of nerdom has been met here, I declare. Its like everyone wants to keep arguing with me, and I have no clue why. I DONT WANT TO ARGUE, CHILL OUT PEOPLE... jeez can we discuss this stuff in an adult manner without trying to provoke everyone? And without practicing the age old argument "my opinion > your opinion".
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« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2008, 05:53:28 PM »

Okay fuckwits, I thought I wouldn't have to say this after things got back on track, but...

See up there, where the title of the thread is?  There's not a single word there that would lead you to believe this is either a LOL PS3 NUMBAH ONE thread or a ROFL PS3 TEH SUX thread.  As such, shut the fuck up about it here.  If you want to talk about that, make another thread for it.
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Jet16
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« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2008, 06:58:44 PM »

I really can't say I'm looking forward to XIII. I'm trying my best to avoid any media on it, and this is my first in a while. XII was ok, but I set it as the last Final Fantasy for me. But that is slowly going away as I may just rent these games to see how they are. Anyway, SE has lost a lot of my faith as a developing company, I will only rent their developed games with discretion. Unless SE can pull a full 360 (heh) and change the way they make their games, I won't be buying a FF title for a while.

And, anyway, Shiva as a bike.. what the hell are they thinking?
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2008, 12:57:02 AM »

squaresoft makes games the same way they always have although I'd never really argue that their handling of the FF series has been particularly competent. they were fun when i was youngthey killed my sister by giving her salvia and pushing her into a shark pen at sarasota jungle gardenser but i only really like the NES ones and like, 7 and 9 anymore.
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« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2008, 01:39:09 AM »

Are... Are you high?
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Dade
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« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2008, 02:24:17 AM »

Quote from: "MeshGearFox"
squaresoft makes games the same way they always have although I'd never really argue that their handling of the FF series has been particularly competent. they were fun when i was youngthey killed my sister by giving her salvia and pushing her into a shark pen at sarasota jungle gardenser but i only really like the NES ones and like, 7 and 9 anymore.


You are dumb, please leave.
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Shiguma
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« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2008, 10:24:25 AM »

I can always count on Cosapi and PKProductions' posts to give me that warm, fuzzy feeling of "INT Down" for the day, but geez, what's gotten into you, Mesh? :P
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Professor Gast
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« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2008, 10:29:17 AM »

Quote from: "Prime Mover"
Masamune hit the nail on the head... I was going to mentioned it until he came along. Although I prefer all FF games to be unique worlds, the FF7 situation *IS* different from the FNC project.

FF7 was a cash cow. They realized that it had been almost 10 years, and the FF7 fanboyism still hadn't died, so they decided to cash in on it. Plain and simple. There was no: "FF7 was an inspiring game for us to make, so we thought it would be interesting to re-explore the world". No... most Square personel have testified that FF7 was like pulling teeth to create, it was a prototype for the 3D era, and they were happy to move on to other projects. They re-openned the wound because they sick there B-Teams on a few smaller projects, slap some FF7 references in it, and know that they have a fanbase already in place to buy it.

FNC, on the other hand, was planned from the beginning. There's no clear-cut business gain for doing this. Using the same world could possibly hurt sales, making each game seem less significant... and by no means are these projects going to be made any simpler or cheaper by the fact that they take place in the same world. My guess is that the planners just got carried away, and decided that they had too many ideas to fit into one game, and split it into many projects. I think they should have just taken the best of the best ideas, made one cohesive story, and just leave it at that... but I'm not completely apposed to series.

But I'm really hoping that when FF14 comes around, they'll cut with all these games that take place in the same world. For one thing, games which use the same world tend to put a damper on world maps (because noone wants to make 4 games with the same world map). And DAMNIT, I want my world map exploration back!!!


First of all the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII games were not made by "B-Teams". They were all developed by the first production team, which has been responsible for Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, X-2 and the Kingdom Hearts franchise. With Kitase, Nomura, Nojima, etc. many of the key staffers behind Final Fantasy VII worked on those Compilation titles. I don't think, that's what you call "B-Team" :P.
 
The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII was the first major Polymorphic Content project for Square Enix. They have tried this idea with Full Metal Alchemist and Code Age to a certain degree, but it did not have as much success as the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII. They have not talked about Polymorphic Content much recently, but it is still there as a business strategy. Only recently Square Enix president Youichi Wada explained the idea behind Polymorphic Content to a British site as follows:

"We manufacture content. We wrack our brains for what might sell and what might not, but it's very difficult to hit the jackpot, as it were. Once we've hit it, we have to get all the juice possible out of it. The obvious example is Final Fantasy. If we just sell each one, we end up with only 12 commodities. We have to think what we can do to make more profit out of the series.
We believe that consumers should be segmented by what they think, rather than age, profession or even race. We feel that what really wins their hearts is the concept of the game world. By the polymorphic strategy, we sell them what they really want in terms of concept something that appeals to them several times over".
 
In short, that concept is not going away. You can bet those Final Fantasy XIII games will sell extremely well again (as did the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII), so from a business perspective, they would be foolish to abandon it.
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PKProductions
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« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2008, 01:27:43 PM »

Quote from: "Shiguma"
I can always count on Cosapi and PKProductions' posts to give me that warm, fuzzy feeling of "INT Down" for the day, but geez, what's gotten into you, Mesh? :P


I for one, am honored. I will be sure to keep up my normal banter, so Shiguma can continue to have these experiences. No need to thank me.
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D-Rider
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« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2008, 01:28:55 PM »

Quote from: "PKProductions"
Quote from: "Shiguma"
I can always count on Cosapi and PKProductions' posts to give me that warm, fuzzy feeling of "INT Down" for the day, but geez, what's gotten into you, Mesh? :P


I for one, am honored. I will be sure to keep up my normal banter, so Shiguma can continue to have these experiences. No need to thank me.


That's three strikes, champ.  You're out.  Now can we move on, please?  Thanks.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2008, 02:38:28 PM »

Gast, I think your definition of B-Team is a bit scued. X-2 was NOT made by an A-Team, FFT was NOT made by an A-Team. Some of the over-seeing personell who made FF7 may have worked on the FF7 compilation, but the majority of the design staff and employees are staff that do things like Front Mission, etc. Xenogears was made by a B-Team.

B-Team doesn't neccessarilly mean that they're a sub-par group, but that the investment is lower, usually with less R&D time and resources at their disposal (which, among other things, was responsible for Xenogears lower quality graphics to other current PS1 titles). X-2 simply used the FFX engine, so they were able to get a very high quality game... but Square would have NEVER allotted the resources to build a new engine the way they usually do on a A-game.

Historically, B-media has been responsible for huge advancements, as many times the teams are younger and fresher, and limited budgets have forced groups to come up with ingenious workarounds. The entire of Film Noir, for instance, sprang up from the B-teams of major production houses (MGM, Universal, etc), and influenced generations of films of many genres. So when I speak of B-teams, B-movies, etc, understand that the "B" doesn't stand for "Bad", but simply lower budget, and less high-profile teams.

I may not be completely sure, but I'm fairly certain that X-2, FFT, Dirge of Cirberus, etc, were mainly done by lower-profile staffers with more limited resources. This qualifies as a B-Team.
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