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Author Topic: Your Opinion: The Spin-Offs  (Read 4245 times)
Dice
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« on: February 28, 2008, 01:13:51 PM »

This idea just clicked to me, and I rendered it vital enough to make a topic.
(coincidently, I have an FFX-2 ost banner as I'm making this post).

How do you feel about them?  Half the time, these spin-offs are nothing compared to what they stem from (game play, story...and hell, in just about all fields they're a step below), and usually come with a similar price tag.

Do you bother with these titles?  

(on a side note, I heard the Tingle Zelda adventure was pretty trashy)
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 01:28:15 PM »

And this thread proves what I've been saying forever:  if you judge games on their own merit and quit comparing them to the shit that came before it, you'll generally get more enjoyment out of them.  See comparing Suikoden III to Suikoden II, FFX-2 to FFX, and every Mana game post-Secret of Mana for further details. :P
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Ryos
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 01:47:47 PM »

Yeah, really depends on the content of the spin-offs.  Though most of them haven't been terribly interesting, a few are (including but not limited to Shadow Hearts and Digital Devil Saga - SMT has way too many spin-offs :p).
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 02:41:46 PM »

Quote from: "D-Rider"
And this thread proves what I've been saying forever:  if you judge games on their own merit and quit comparing them to the shit that came before it, you'll generally get more enjoyment out of them.


I couldn't agree more.  This is why I generally don't get so annoyed with reused elements in a game as I see other people do.

I didn't mind FFX-2, but the over the top poppyness of the game got on my nerves after awhile (gameplay was decent but i can't remember the job system much).  I thoroughly enjoyed DDS, but I felt like I missed too much of the main story due to choppy playtime amounts.

If the games are good then I don't have much of a problem, but the FF ones are just getting out of hand it seems.
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Dice
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 02:55:20 PM »

I also wonder though, if the game is (more often than not) guaranteed to be a lesser version of the original, then where's the merit in making them?  Heck, this even applies to film sequels (whereas its the same plot, but with B actors).
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 03:50:06 PM »

Quote from: "D-Rider"
If you judge games on their own merit and quit comparing them to the shit that came before it, you'll generally get more enjoyment out of them.

Despite some of my earlier rantings, I believe this's actually true, as well.

...

Objectively, I believe Dirge of Cerberus has a lousy plot (all these damn new villains just keep popping out of nowhere in the FFVII world, don't they?); none of these new villains make any damn sense, and neither do repeat appearances by Sephiroth, either.

STILL, I believe Dirge of Cerberus is actually THE BEST third-person shooter on the PS2, and even speaking relatively, I still think it's pretty damn fun play, though, I had to actually play the tutorial to learn the controls, namely the shooting.

...

FFX-2 is asstrocious, whether you compare it to any other game or not. The plot is next to nill, and it's just a level-grinder with small, small dungeons.
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 04:24:32 PM »

Quote from: "Dice"
I also wonder though, if the game is (more often than not) guaranteed to be a lesser version of the original, then where's the merit in making them?  Heck, this even applies to film sequels (whereas its the same plot, but with B actors).


$$$

So that more people can become cash money millionaires, of course.
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 05:50:29 PM »

See, there are two reasons to make a spinoff. First, you wanna mess around with the main series, but don't want to make a game within the main series. This leads to FFT.

Second, you're just sucking dick. This leads to stuff like the FFVII spinoffs.
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2008, 05:55:47 PM »

Just about every Megami Tensei game is a spin off.  The only really bad ones were Ronde, the GBA Devil Children (DemiKids) games, and Last Bible 1 (Revelations: The Demon Slayer.)  I think Megami Tensei has found more widespread success with its spin offs than its main series.  

FFX-2 was awesome.  It was more fun and enjoyable than FFX to me.  The gameplay was exquisite, playing dress up with Rikku was fun, and the music was stellar.  The battle theme in particular was awesome.  LeBlanc was such a wacky over-the-top villain, I couldn't help but love her.  "Noojie-woojie"

And in looking at the various Atelier titles out there (Atelier Marie, Atelier Elie, Atelier Judie, etc.) the Atelier Iris trilogy was pretty good.  1 & 2 were stellar.  3 not so much, but it was still reasonably fun.  

One series that has way too main main installments, spin offs, spin offs of spin offs and is just completely supersaturating the market is Tales.  Even the worst Tales game is relatively fun, but it is getting stale.  That series needs a shake-up.  Maybe a sci-fi space opera or cyberpunk Tales instead of the trad fantasy.  And maybe someone other than Motoi Sakuraba's insipid music (and not Go Shiina or Takuya Yasuda- they both sucked.)
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 06:18:37 PM »

Most of the time, gaiden's are pretty much crap-tastic, though once in a while they can be endeering. The big acception is when they make a handheld spinoff, sometimes its great because it's not TRYING to live up to the original's glory, and also they tend to re-open older styles of gameing, with a more contemporary approach. FFXII: Revinant Wings is exactly that. RW is pretty much the only FF spinnoff I've ever liked (FFT and it's followups included), partly because it's just a fun little romp, nothing serious. Had it been developed for the PS2, it would have been terrible. I haven't played FFX-2, btw.
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2008, 08:56:20 PM »

Quote from: "Bernhardt"
STILL, I believe Dirge of Cerberus is actually THE BEST third-person shooter on the PS2, and even speaking relatively, I still think it's pretty damn fun play, though, I had to actually play the tutorial to learn the controls, namely the shooting.

So you haven't played Resident Evil 4. Seeing as how it's one of the best games ever, you should fix that.

I think spin-offs that deviate are the most fun usually, but really it's all a mixed bag. Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime was loads of fun, FFT was pretty awesome, and, uhh, Pokemon Snap was pretty fun for what it was. I'm not too fond of SE's sequels to sequels business though I've only played one, FFX-2. However, FFX-2's ending alone has left me jaded about the whole thing.
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2008, 09:01:17 PM »

Quote from: "KeeperX"
Quote from: "Dice"
I also wonder though, if the game is (more often than not) guaranteed to be a lesser version of the original, then where's the merit in making them?  Heck, this even applies to film sequels (whereas its the same plot, but with B actors).


$$$

So that more people can become cash money millionaires, of course.


Yeah, it's all about the benjamins. If a developer really feels like developing a brand new, unrelated game, they should just do it and not bother slapping a franchise name on it. Final Fantasy Tactics is a perfect example. It's references to Final Fantasy are cursory at best, why not just make it something entirely new? This is especially bullshit because the entire Tactics franchise has become its own "Ivalice" storyline. Why not just call the series Ivalice 1 through 40 and ditch the namesake altogether?

Marketing bullshit aside, spin-offs are just as likely to be good as regular games. For every Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (which admittedly, I liked despite it's crappy-ness) there is a Final Fantasy Tactics or Shining Soul (or, hell, Shining Force for that matter).
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2008, 09:27:34 PM »

Quote from: "Ryos"
Yeah, really depends on the content of the spin-offs.  Though most of them haven't been terribly interesting, a few are (including but not limited to Shadow Hearts and Digital Devil Saga - SMT has way too many spin-offs :p).


What about Shadow Hearts? There are Shadow Hearts spin-offs? Or are you referring to Shadow Hearts being a pseudo-successor to Koudelka?
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2008, 09:54:48 PM »

Which brings up an interesting question - how many cases have the spin-offs overshadowed the original game? Shadow Hearts is definitely a case of that, Persona seems to have equaled the mainline MegaTens, and maybe you can make a case for Metroid Prime (though I'd say it's equaled there too).
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Ryos
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2008, 10:03:13 PM »

Quote from: "Ramza"
Or are you referring to Shadow Hearts being a pseudo-successor to Koudelka?


Yes, SH being the spiritual sequel to Koudelka - it wasn't quite a sequel but definitely had its roots in it.
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