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Author Topic: Video shows Bush was warned before Katrina struck.  (Read 16700 times)
Dios GX
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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2006, 11:29:42 PM »

Likewise on both accounts Parn. I had the ability to have my donations refunded and not so much as "opted" not to, but felt it a responsibility not to. I gave that money with the full intent of not getting it back. Taking it back by whatever means is wrong to me.

Also, it honestly takes a lot to "get under my skin" and irritate me beyond five seconds of agitation. But we all know Dave doesn't have enough money to donate to anybody because he is too busy whining on the internet about his dad losing his job and how he has no money to eat. That's why he continued to pay for an internet domain name and an ISP.

Yeah, I still remember that. Jackass.
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Ark
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« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2006, 12:11:00 AM »

Hey everyone being a stupid fucking bag of cocks to Parn and blaming Bush omg bush killed new orleans:



k
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drumlord
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« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2006, 12:21:27 AM »

Quote from: "Parn"
Fuck you...What are you, fucking retarded?...You're quite the assuming little fucker, aren't you?...Fuck you and your high horse... you're one of the many retards...stupid ass...dipshit...Fuck you

You win this round. Far more insults and curses than me.

Quote
Since we're in the business of villainizing and blabbing on about caring so much for the people of New Orleans, do tell... what did YOU do to aid the survivors of the incident?

I was unaware this was an issue. What if I was too poor to do anything to help? What if I had an ailing relative that all my income goes to? What if I was student paying for school? Would that make me a stupid jerkface who just talks the talk? Does that mean I am no longer allowed to have an option?

But since you asked, I donated hundreds to the cause which was automatically doubled by my employer. I didn't get around to picking any clothes or supplies to send down so my wife and I donated some more money. We are $30,000 in debt so this isn't easy for us to do. And incidentally, not writing off donations doesn't make you a better person; it makes you foolish. You don't get your money back. The purpose of writing off a donation is so that the government doesn't tax you for money which went to helping a cause.

You are clearly very angry with me. I'm not playing a political game. I'm unsure as to what the purpose of said game would be. I said you were repeating conservative talking points because you were. My only agenda here is to have a discussion that interests me. It clearly interests you as well or else you wouldn't respond ;)
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2006, 12:36:46 AM »

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Parn
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2006, 08:31:13 AM »

Quote from: "drumlord"
I was unaware this was an issue. What if I was too poor to do anything to help? What if I had an ailing relative that all my income goes to? What if I was student paying for school? Would that make me a stupid jerkface who just talks the talk? Does that mean I am no longer allowed to have an option?
Oh please.  What ifs don't apply to individuals that frequent the world wide web and play an extensive library of videogames.  Who are you trying to kid.  I asked you specifically, knowing your basic habits.

Quote from: "drumlord"
But since you asked, I donated hundreds to the cause which was automatically doubled by my employer. I didn't get around to picking any clothes or supplies to send down so my wife and I donated some more money. We are $30,000 in debt so this isn't easy for us to do.
Good on you, at least you're not all talk.

Quote from: "drumlord"
And incidentally, not writing off donations doesn't make you a better person; it makes you foolish. You don't get your money back. The purpose of writing off a donation is so that the government doesn't tax you for money which went to helping a cause.
You know how income taxes work, right?  Let me explain this wonderful process to you.  You fill out a W-4 at the start of your job to determine your income tax withholding.  Since you do not know how much money you would have donated in advance, you cannot put this figure down on your W-4.  Therefore, this is potential money that will be coming back to you!  Come around mid winter, we get these wonderful things called W-2's that we require to complete our income taxes.  When you file your taxes and put your donations down under your itemized deductions on your 1040 form, if you're getting a return back from the IRS, you will be getting more since you listed down your donations.  If you have to pay the IRS, the itemized deductions will make it less.  This is more money in your pocket, and since money has to come from somewhere, the government has less money to work with on all those wonderful programs that you're apparently very dependant on!

Quote from: "drumlord"
You are clearly very angry with me.
Yep.  Mostly because I thought you were a reasonable individual, but instead you chose to twist my words and try to villainize me.  My point of view was that the government doesn't deserve all the blame, and your changing that to "Parn thinks the government is innocent, look what Bush did, he must think Brown did a good job, and he doesn't care about people in need" wreaked of political bullshit.  That's the same kind of mudslinging that our politicians in Congress do on a daily basis.

Quote from: "drumlord"
I'm not playing a political game. I'm unsure as to what the purpose of said game would be. I said you were repeating conservative talking points because you were.
Liar.  You took what I said and put me in one of two camps, and just assumed what I thought for the rest.  You brought up attempted points regarding President Bush to use against me because you thought I'd argue against those.  You claimed that I was in defense of Brown.  But by all means, continue denying it.

Quote from: "drumlord"
My only agenda here is to have a discussion that interests me. It clearly interests you as well or else you wouldn't respond ;)
Really.  Though I noticed you're rapidly running out of things to respond to.  I guess you were counting on me to defend the administration's blunders like some political lackey that can't think for himself.
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Angelo
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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2006, 10:50:23 AM »

Quote from: "Parn"
When you file your taxes and put your donations down under your itemized deductions on your 1040 form, if you're getting a return back from the IRS, you will be getting more since you listed down your donations.  If you have to pay the IRS, the itemized deductions will make it less.  This is more money in your pocket, and since money has to come from somewhere, the government has less money to work with on all those wonderful programs that you're apparently very dependant on!


This is a red herring.  Both you and Tony said you don't report donations because it'd be like getting a refund.  Rich explained that that particular line of thinking is factually incorrect.  So instead of a rebuttal on the facts, you launch a moral attack, claiming that it's somehow unamerican to invoke the tax breaks that our american congressmen and senators passed into law.

Besides, the vast majority of taxpayers don't itemize on their returns, so the point is moot.
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drumlord
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« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2006, 11:34:47 AM »

Quote from: "Parn"
Really.  Though I noticed you're rapidly running out of things to respond to.  I guess you were counting on me to defend the administration's blunders like some political lackey that can't think for himself.

I didn't run out of things to respond to. I chose not to do a point by point breakdown of your post because I didn't see it as necessary. The whole point of my very first post was merely to point out that you can't just say "don't blame the government you fools" and then move on. I knew it would grate your nerves but by no means did I think you would explode into little bits of internet jiblets.

The simple fact is that without learning from the past and finding who FUCKED UP, this kind of situation will happen again. The obvious conclusions come out first: the levees weren't ready for this; the superdome (or whatever it was called) was not suitable for this; FEMA did not react quickly enough. Those are three of the obvious ones. But you cannot leave it at that as you initially suggested. You need to determine why those were problems. Obviously, Brown was a factor in FEMA not acting well. People use this video to lambast Bush, but Brown is clearly aware of the dangers as well and still did not act appropriately. The other two problems were at the city and state levels. NO has a department just for dealing with disaster preparedness. The problem is that they weren't the ones that dropped the ball. They and scientists pushed for rebuilding the levees for years and several times they were shot down.

There has to be accountability. 1300 dead and thousands missing is not an acceptable statistic. And believe it or not, blaming them for dying does make you a jerk. Hell, even 1200 of them jumped into the torrent because they thought it was a giant swimming pool, the other 100 who were trapped there for one reason or another are still dead because of a lack of proper disaster preparedness measures. We're at the beginning of a bad hurricane cycle and they are expected to get worse for years. Without finding out who dropped the ball and how, katrina's destruction of NO will happen again and we still won't be prepared.
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Lucca
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2006, 12:15:45 PM »

While almost totally derailing the topic here, let me point out that Hidoshi's comic wins. Enough said. (though if he was also lumping me in there...uh...hee. Uh, I got owned?)

I'd add stuff, but after having a night of sleep and a good cup of coffee to improve my mood, I now discover it ain't worth it. Have at it, gentlemen.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2006, 02:52:29 PM »

Quote from: "Lucca"
While almost totally derailing the topic here, let me point out that Hidoshi's comic wins. Enough said. (though if he was also lumping me in there...uh...hee. Uh, I got owned?)

I'd add stuff, but after having a night of sleep and a good cup of coffee to improve my mood, I now discover it ain't worth it. Have at it, gentlemen.


I'm lumping everyone in there indiscriminately because I'm not racist.

But really, it's because this thread is becoming nothing more than "look my dick/opinion is bigger and more opiniony than yours". I'm inclined in part to agree with both sides, but not in their entirety. I don't believe you can say "well the people were stupid for not leaving", but I also don't believe the entire fault rests with the government being unprepared.

The thing is, every side involved fucked up, badly. People did a lot of stupid shit, both in government and in the city itself. Do we excuse what happened? Hell no. But you also can't just say "fuck them" and leave people to their misery because of mob mentality taking over. I refer everyone to the halo effect and group-think on this subject. Both are very powerful influences that, in such a situation, would easily overcome regular common sense. Not that it's an excuse, but we have to be moderate about this sort of thing if any good opinion is to be formed.

The government should have been more responsible (and must be held under close scrutiny in the future), the people need to be made aware it's also their responsibility to manage their own lives (this is more the realm of public philosophy), and for anyone on the outside, both a sense of compassion for the suffering and a bit of tongue-clucking disapproval for the assholes should be able to carry the balance.

Are we done? I sure as hell am.
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drumlord
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« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2006, 04:12:15 PM »

Quote from: "Lucca"
While almost totally derailing the topic here, let me point out that Hidoshi's comic wins. Enough said.

Most true statement in this thread.

I'm done arguing now too. Apologizes to parn and the fan.
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Parn
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« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2006, 04:27:27 PM »

Quote from: "Angelo"
Rich explained that that particular line of thinking is factually incorrect. So instead of a rebuttal on the facts, you launch a moral attack, claiming that it's somehow unamerican to invoke the tax breaks that our american congressmen and senators passed into law.
1. When you itemize your donations, you will be getting money back regardless of how you look at it.

2. Where the hell did you get "unamerican" from?

Quote from: "drumlord"
you can't just say "don't blame the government you fools"
Except I never said that.  I said you can't blame the government for everything.  The majority of citizens and government officials alike underestimated what would happen, and there were some major consequences for it.  I'm all for the problems being resolved, but that's not what's happening right now.  All we have is mass finger-pointing, all in preparation for the next election.  I can't stand the Democrats or the Republicans for this crap.  None of them will get my vote.

Bleh, I'm done.  I'm off to a party, and I'd rather not think about this nonsense, even if it is just a message board.  Sorry for the ranting and raving like a lunatic.
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Dave
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« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2006, 06:16:47 PM »

I get under people's skin when I rant. Where some people tend to joke a little low-brow (and can sometimes offend unintentionally), my rants get a little personal sometimes because I get so heated, and I'd like to apologize for that one.

I work for Peace Action and the American Red Cross at the moment. You can say "that's because you're a hippie liberal and can't get a real job" all you want, I've heard it. I hear these types of political discussions all the time, and it really does wear down on you after a while. Red Cross work wears you down in totally different ways on the same subjects. It feels like it's carrying over from different discussions/arguments I've had with people there.

So yeah, my bad.

After Mark's comic I think we're all finished. :P
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Lucid
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« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2006, 10:04:41 PM »

damn, I thought all the drama was gone from this board =p. Nice to see you guys still going tooth and claw about stuff.

I guess my opinion is that the government holds some responsibility for not moving into action soon enough, but placing the general spectrum of that responsibility on one or a few individuals isn't an accurate assessmentof the complex goings on of the bureucratic world.

That's what I blame mostly. Bureucracy. ha.
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Dios GX
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2006, 05:48:22 AM »

Quote from: "Angelo"
This is a red herring.  Both you and Tony said you don't report donations because it'd be like getting a refund.  Rich explained that that particular line of thinking is factually incorrect.  So instead of a rebuttal on the facts, you launch a moral attack, claiming that it's somehow unamerican to invoke the tax breaks that our american congressmen and senators passed into law.


Dave's comment regarding that, if people died were in my family and were wealthy, then it would "affect me" due to the monetary aspect of the loss. I simply pointed out my donations as a means to "back up" what I am saying in that money doesn't matter to me.

Secondly, I don't know where you get the whole "unamerican" thing from. According to American laws, murderers and rapists get a fair trial and set on death row for 20+ years while dick happens to them because of laws we have. I don't really care if a law says I'm entitled to get my money back, nor am I concerned with the patriotic regard of what I decide to do with it.
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Takezo
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« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2006, 04:47:41 PM »

I'm so angry I'm shitting out of my cock.


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Hey everyone being a stupid fucking bag of cocks to Parn and blaming Bush omg bush killed new orleans:


You know, I don't think it'd even be an issue if every post Parn made wasn't anally stuffed by martha stewart's own hand with arrogance and ire (from what I remember anyway).

/scat post.
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