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Author Topic: Video shows Bush was warned before Katrina struck.  (Read 15919 times)
Blackjack
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scott_790@msn.com HappiiyNeurotic scootermcgaffin
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2006, 06:29:07 PM »

Quote from: "daschrier"
That's what happens when people decide they want the government to take care of every aspect of their lives. Hurricane Bob back in 1988, did my parents need someone to tell us to move some place safer? No, they were smart enough to get the hell out of their on our own.


Except for the fact that not everyone has the money or means of transportation.

I mean, this may shock you, but not everyone is an upper middle class citizen. Some people don't even have enough money to own a car. How, exactly, were they supposed to "get the hell out"? Walk?
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Dyne
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2006, 07:33:13 PM »

Quote from: "Blackjack"
Quote from: "daschrier"
That's what happens when people decide they want the government to take care of every aspect of their lives. Hurricane Bob back in 1988, did my parents need someone to tell us to move some place safer? No, they were smart enough to get the hell out of their on our own.


Except for the fact that not everyone has the money or means of transportation.

I mean, this may shock you, but not everyone is an upper middle class citizen. Some people don't even have enough money to own a car. How, exactly, were they supposed to "get the hell out"? Walk?


How they were supposed to get out was the mayor was supposed to supply enough buses to evacuate the people.  I do not believe this was done.

But overall, I believe this whole "blame game" gets people no where.  Its not Bush's fault.  Sure, he could have used his magical powers to stop the flood.  Nor was it the mayors fault, who states he wants the town be renewed as a "chocolate" town...
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Dios GX
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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2006, 07:35:11 PM »

Legs tend to be used for walking, yes. It doesn't matter where you walk to, you just go, and get the hell out.

And yes if you knew about this when the news about the hurricane was first posted you would have gotten to a place safer than the EYE of the hurricane.

Get real.
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Morwan
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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2006, 07:43:50 PM »

Is it realistic to expect someone to walk 120 miles?

Quote from: "Wikipedia"
At landfall, hurricane-force winds extended outward 120 miles (190 km) from the center and the storm's central pressure was 920 mbar (hPa). A few hours later, after weakening slightly, it made landfall for a third time near the Louisiana/Mississippi border with 120 mph (190 km/h) sustained winds, still a Category 3.


I'm not saying people should've expected George Bush and Ray Nagin to personally come down and drive everyone out of the area. But it's inexcusable that an organization like FEMA, who's mission is to prepare and respond to natural disasters, fucked up like it did.
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Lucca
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2006, 07:53:08 PM »

Quote from: "Dios GX"
Fun quip: Katrina destroys the city and what do they do? Throw a party with drugs alcohol and public fornication.

Why do these people deserve help exactly?


Because they're people. Good LORD, what is wrong with you? I really hope that was just a flame bait becuase if not...oh man, dunno HOW to respond to that. Not everyone was raping/killing others. Generlizations ahoy!

All of this talk of walking? Hah, are you SERIOUS? If they wanted to really get away from the eye of the storm, they'd have to walk 25-50 miles in less than 24 hours. Not everyone is physically fit. A lot of people were elderly. Answer THAT question.

As to who fucked up? Everyone did. I'd love it if someone accepted responsiblity, but they won't and this dance'll continue for another 6 months.
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Dios GX
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2006, 08:09:38 PM »

Of course it's just generalizations. My point however is valid for those who decided to fuck around and party under the guise it will "generate money" for their destroyed city.

And yeah, I am serious about walking, and no I don't expect anyone to walk out within 24 hours. Because they had far more than a single day to get out. As for the elderly and enfeebled, that sucks ass but this is life and shit happens, and not everyone can be saved. This isn't Candyland, but I sure wish it was along with everyone else.

There are however more than enough people who could have helped themselves and didn't chalk it up to responsibility to do anything.


Quote from: "Morwan"
Is it realistic to expect someone to walk 120 miles?



You tell me. Quite obviously the distance these people covered took a great deal of time. But if you expect me to believe they're safer sitting around not even trying to get away, I'd pretty much have to just laugh in your face. Even still, they don't have to clear the 120 mile borderline. You can make it to a "safer" region before such time.

There was far more than 24 hours of warning time.
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Thanatos01s2
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2006, 10:58:16 PM »

What shocks me most about this situation is that they are going to construct all of these houses, business's and what not in the same spot and they are just going to get destroyed again.  People need to know that they should live above sea level, not under it.

Look I am sorry but if you want to live in New Orleans you truly are an idiot

http://www.publichealth.hurricane.lsu.edu/convert%20to%20tables/New%20Orleans%20Study%20Areatf.htm

Here is why



Look where you live...below two gigantic lakes, which are held back by levees being maintained by Ray Nagin, who never spent any money on them to re-enforce them like he was supposed to.  He pissed all of that tax payer money away.

Edit: Katrina did not flood New Orleans, the levees did, if the levees would have held we would not be in such a dire situation.  That is why I blame the people who did not maintain the levees (i.e. Ray Nagin) like they were supposed to.  What did they do with that several hundered million dollars, that is what I want to know. Ugh! this is such a blame game for the media and I hate adding to it.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2006, 03:03:27 AM »

Quote from: "Dios GX"
And yeah, I am serious about walking, and no I don't expect anyone to walk out within 24 hours. Because they had far more than a single day to get out. As for the elderly and enfeebled, that sucks ass but this is life and shit happens, and not everyone can be saved. This isn't Candyland, but I sure wish it was along with everyone else.


They were supposed to outwalk a hurricane?
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2006, 03:10:03 AM »

That sir, is funny.
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Dios GX
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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2006, 05:47:19 AM »

Quote from: "Blackjack"
Quote from: "Dios GX"
And yeah, I am serious about walking, and no I don't expect anyone to walk out within 24 hours. Because they had far more than a single day to get out. As for the elderly and enfeebled, that sucks ass but this is life and shit happens, and not everyone can be saved. This isn't Candyland, but I sure wish it was along with everyone else.


They were supposed to outwalk a hurricane?


I was thinking more along the lines of, if you saw a hurricane coming you'd move faster than walking speed.

I'm curious as to if a hurricane was coming to where you live are you gonna sit around and let it fucking kill you? Give me a break. These people live in new oreleans NOBODY OWNS A FREAKING CAR THERE. All these people do is walk all day, it isn't like they are out of shape.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2006, 06:24:06 AM »

Quote from: "Dios GX"
Quote from: "Blackjack"
Quote from: "Dios GX"
And yeah, I am serious about walking, and no I don't expect anyone to walk out within 24 hours. Because they had far more than a single day to get out. As for the elderly and enfeebled, that sucks ass but this is life and shit happens, and not everyone can be saved. This isn't Candyland, but I sure wish it was along with everyone else.


They were supposed to outwalk a hurricane?


I was thinking more along the lines of, if you saw a hurricane coming you'd move faster than walking speed.

I'm curious as to if a hurricane was coming to where you live are you gonna sit around and let it fucking kill you? Give me a break. These people live in new oreleans NOBODY OWNS A FREAKING CAR THERE. All these people do is walk all day, it isn't like they are out of shape.


Oh, so they were supposed to outrun a hurricane.

Yes, of course. That's much less insane.
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Ashton
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« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2006, 07:23:06 AM »

Playing the blame game lets EVERYONE escape responsibility.

The citizens blame the state, the state blames the government, the government blames the citizens, blah blah blah the list goes on, and everyone can walk around talking as if THEY HAD NO RESPONSIBILITY TO BEGIN WITH.

Face it, everyone has a responsibility to themselves and to each other, as the government has a responsibility to help its own citizens. Saying that there is one, single blameless party is fucking stupid. EVERYONE fucked up. People didn't take action because NONE OF THEM, citizen OR government official, took this shit seriously. You can say "the citizens were stupid for not getting out of the hurricane's way," or you can say "the government was stupid for not providing adequate help to the citizens," I don't give a damn, both arguments are fucking idiotic, because pretty much everyone just didn't give any sort of a damn.

I'd say this Katrina business gave us a real look at what our country's really like. Asia got ravaged by a tidal wave and people lend help and support, the afflicted helped and saved one another. Katrina decimated New Orleans and everyone worth a God damn starts pointing fingers while the afflicted started looting stores and shooting at rescue helicopters while their fellow Americans were drowning in the streets.

Fucking joke.
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Dave
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« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2006, 07:33:32 AM »

Hypothetical question:

If the city of Los Angeles knew 48 hours in advance that an earthquake was coming that could wipe out the city, do you think everyone would be able to make it out?

Even the people living in shelters or on the street?

And hospital patients?

And the people who have no working automobile, no health care, depend on buses for local transportation and live paycheck-to-paycheck?

I suppose they'd all just walk to Bakersfield, right?
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drumlord
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« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2006, 08:49:24 AM »

Quote from: "Parn"
Fantastic job being a jackass, drumlord.  I never said the government was innocent.  I'm not defending Brown's job at all.  Way to turn it into a black and white scenario.  But then, that's what it's all about, right?  It's always liberals are morons, conservatives are great.  Or it's conservatives are money loving faggots, and liberals can solve the world's problems.  Fuck off.

Thank you. I do try to be a jackass, so I'm glad I achieve some measure of success. As for liberals vs. conservatives, I'm glad you can try to sway the topic in that direction. It's a good way to deflect critisism. I certainly didn't put things that way. I merely pointed out that the administration felt it better to go on vacation and be in pictures with new guitars rather than responding to a crisis. I could care less which party they are part of. The blame goes down to the city level putting several parties at fault.

Quote from: "Parn"
You're right, scientists have been ranting about this happening for years.  This scenario was just waiting to happen.  So how is it that this makes the citizens that live there no longer responsible for their own lives?  How is it that every time something goes wrong, it's the government's fault?

So you want to be lumped together with Dios in the "it's their own fault so they deserve to die route?" Good stuff. FABULOUS even. You are so overflowing with compassion and humanity, I almost can't take it. It's like when the grinch's heart grew three sizes. I mean god, people pay taxes to keep their roads, bridges, and levees working in tip top shape. Those taxes go to the government who in turn have scientists telling them they need to fix stuff, but stuff does not get fixed. But remember folks, it's your own fault when you die. Parn said so.

Quote from: "Parn"
People need to take care of themselves.  What are you retards going to do the day social security goes bankrupt and your parents and grandparents no longer have a dedicated income?  Blame the government and talk about it?  You all know it might happen someday.  The question is, are you preparing for it, or are you just waiting until it happens so you can play the blame game again?

Social security? I was unaware this had anything to do with NO. It must be tough to avoid those conservative talking points though. Keep em coming. We've got some WMDs to worry about here and I think somebody might be pulling the feeding tube on a lady with no brain. And when that happens, it is made into a national issue where the entire Republican congress flies in to vote on a new law on demand, much better response than when thousands are at risk of dying. But fuck, what do I know? I'm one of those "retards" who cares when people die and millions lose their homes.

edit: What this really all comes down to is Bush's quote from three days after Katrina hit: "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." Not only did many anticipate the breach and warn the local government that the levees will be breached, but Bush himself was warned days a few days before. It makes you wonder what he thinks anticipate means
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daschrier
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« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2006, 11:17:27 AM »

Quote from: "Blackjack"
Quote from: "daschrier"
That's what happens when people decide they want the government to take care of every aspect of their lives. Hurricane Bob back in 1988, did my parents need someone to tell us to move some place safer? No, they were smart enough to get the hell out of their on our own.


Except for the fact that not everyone has the money or means of transportation.

I mean, this may shock you, but not everyone is an upper middle class citizen. Some people don't even have enough money to own a car. How, exactly, were they supposed to "get the hell out"? Walk?


No, I understand that. But it was shown that there were plenty of buses that went unused. Was Bush supposed to go down to NO personally and tell people to get on the buses? Naggin dropped the ball just as much as everyone else. And I'm far from upper middle class, I'm more in the lower middle class thanks. :)
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