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Author Topic: Oh Blizzard, Blizzard, Blizzard  (Read 3594 times)
Ryos
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« on: May 02, 2006, 01:12:54 AM »

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=863036&p=1&tmp=1#post863036

Because lord knows druids in WoW need buffs.  Snicker.
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Rico
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 03:51:10 AM »

Yeah, one of our Shaman said that over Vent tonight, and all the Druids simultaneously called bullshit.

About the only thing I can come up with besides that they'd just nerf Innervate is that the Mage/Shaman reviews are going to be amazing, because ... man, 300 DPS+Tanking+7k mana/+580 healing+Innervate is flat-out ridiculous, and I haven't even downed Razorgore or Skeram.
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Dio
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 06:01:19 AM »

Well, if it turns out to actually happen, I will definitely know what route to take with my Druid... MOONKIN!! :P
My druid is at lvl 40, and I was debating on going full Resto or just doing Balance/Resto... Guess by 1.11, my question is answered.
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Ark
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 10:56:23 AM »

Nice to see Caydiem is being fair and balanced now that she's in a senior decision position.

Fucking ugly butch cunt. Ugh. Congrats druids, but jesus christ.
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Akanbe-
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 12:56:52 PM »

i personally enjoy how 50% of the time I go to the forums that anyone links to I get:

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Mother fucking turtle.

therefore, i wish i knew what you guys are talking about.

edit:  Now I do, finally got access.

I really don't know what to say.  Maybe I didn't find the right post.  It's just that innervate is a regular druid ability (non talent) at 40, right?  Even though I've done some end game, I can't say i'm that familiar with them.  Our guild never had more than 2 druids on any run we did (maybe 3, i just missed?).  Just aren't that many on our server.  I wonder if this has anything to do with all the bitching and crying that was done when 1.1 was announced and all the druids and shaman cried "druids will be obsolete now!!1"
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Rico
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 01:59:36 PM »

Innervate is just fantastically good, which is why they're making it trainable and why making it trainable is a problem.  It gives a target 500% mana regen for 20 seconds on a six-minute cooldown, and if the target has a regen bonus (Reflection, Blue Dragon Card) the 400% bonus from Innervate applies to that, too, which gets sick.

For example, on a 300-spirit Priest (not that high), Innervate will boost their mana regen to 437.5 a tick.  That's a pretty huge PvE addition.  What it also does, in the absense of dispelling classes or with good positioning (hi travel form), is tweak PvP balance and remove a lot of a Druid's need to balance his potential DPS with his available mana pool.

There are a couple of biggish potential problems with this.  Since the Priest review (which they needed), Restoration Druids have lost a lot of their identity in the healing game.  Before 1.10, there was a great synergy between Druids and Priests: Their HoTs stacked, and Druids had highly efficient long heals while Priests were and are the kings of quick healing.  So, you'd put Druids on your MT, Priests would be more in charge of spot healing and spike covering, and then when the Priest went OOM from needing to cast inefficiently, the Druid would Innervate him and everyone would keep going.  With the Greater Heal change, while Druids still hold a little bit of efficiency, the classes are now equal in efficient heals and Druids are way outclassed on quick and party heals.

With the Feral Heart of the Wild talent, a Restoration Druid sacrifices a lot of mana in exchange for slightly increased healing efficiency and Innervate, and with the changes to cleansing costs, mana pool means a lot more than it used to.  While Healflagarate may bridge a bit of the Flash Heal gap, depending entirely on how it's designed and its cooldown, there's a big potential for the Restoration Druid to basically be an equal to the 30f/21r hybrid build, but with much worse DPS and utility (no threat increase, much lower mana pool for slightly higher efficiency).

In addition, this puts some undeserved pressure on earlier-end-game DPS classes.  While Rogues do eventually become the kings of single-target DPS, they're a populous class, and until they start getting up to the Ragnaros/BWL gear level, a Feral Druid can keep up with them with minimal epics--a Feral Druid which can now stop his DPS for 3 seconds to give a Priest several thousand mana, while a Rogue can't utilize his stuns (loldomo) or poisons, and has more of a negative impact on his DPS backing out to bandage than a Druid does backing out to Healing Touch himself.

Then there's Moonkin now with a decent amount of staying power putting more pressure on the cloth caster rolls, and being able to fufill most early Mage raid duty while still being able spot heal, though at least there are occasional AoE spots in MC, and Zul'Gurub rather requires Polymorph.

And then there's Shaman.  Poor Shaman....
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Akanbe-
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 02:45:56 PM »

ah yes, THAT ability.  On my priest when I wasn't in an end game guild (but we had lots of 60's), we often did ZG.  We had 2 priests generally, me being 1.  So I do remember getting that ability a couple times.  Never found out it's name because I was too busy healing (we weren't that good =p).

When i actually went to an end game guild, i wasn't anywhere near main healer so i didnt ever get to see that or what it was.  interesting.  i see the problems it can create.

I see the problems for Shams too.  Since they're getting a review as well in the next patch, maybe that will help them out there as well.

edit:  It has to be getting nerfed when they do this.  It's a last tier talent for a reason.  They have to be putting it on a longer cooldown timer, nerfing the amount of mana regen, or something.
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Ryos
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 05:57:17 PM »

Quote from: "Akanbe-"

edit:  It has to be getting nerfed when they do this.  It's a last tier talent for a reason.  They have to be putting it on a longer cooldown timer, nerfing the amount of mana regen, or something.


Maybe.  When hurricane was made a trainable skill, it got a nerf/buff that effectively made it slightly more powerful after being changed to a trainable skill than it was as a 31 point talent.  Of course, hurricane was a novelty talent and innervate is the best single end tier talent of any class.
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2006, 06:22:53 AM »

The reason that Innervate is getting shifted into a trainable position is to prevent the pidgeonholing that had previously been going on.  The devs didn't want Druids to be forced into Resto spec to be part of raids, so they puzzled out a way to give the final word on making Druids into a true Hybrid class that CAN be considered viable as a DPS caster or a melee.  Or, for that matter, an off tank.

Yes, Druids can tank in raids.

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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2006, 10:41:02 AM »

That's the best fucking argument I've read for this, Gearhead. Thanks!

Now I dont hate Druids for being ungodly awesome.
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Ryos
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2006, 12:09:05 AM »

Quote from: "Gearhead"
The reason that Innervate is getting shifted into a trainable position is to prevent the pidgeonholing that had previously been going on.  The devs didn't want Druids to be forced into Resto spec to be part of raids, so they puzzled out a way to give the final word on making Druids into a true Hybrid class that CAN be considered viable as a DPS caster or a melee.  Or, for that matter, an off tank.


Oh, it's obvious why Blizzard's doing it.  It's just insanely overpowered to do this when alternate builds were already pretty powerful, even in raid settings (oomkin build aside, considering it's not really all that hot under most conditions beyond one or two for the aura).  Unfortunately though, what helps the gimp druids with their narrowminded guilds out (and keep in mind most of these guilds who said innervate or /gquit aren't really going to be all that much more lenient after the change in terms of optimal builds) also makes the druids who know what they're doing next to invincible.
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Ark
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2006, 12:42:52 AM »

Rogues better get Cold Blood trainable or I will fucking carbomb their offices
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John
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2006, 12:58:55 AM »

Ark: Please.  It's rogues we're talking about.

They're going to give us something no one knows how to use trainable: Blade Flurry.
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