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Author Topic: Star Ocean: The Last Hope news.(56k Warning)  (Read 86174 times)
daschrier
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« Reply #435 on: March 24, 2009, 09:13:56 AM »

At the last dungeon.

Did some readin about all the post game stuff and requirements to get 100% achievements, it's quite daunting.

Trying to decide if I should do the post game stuff now or just move on to universe mode.
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magusgs
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« Reply #436 on: March 24, 2009, 10:44:06 AM »

The bonus dungeons are new content; universe mode is simply old content on a new difficulty level.  The choice seems pretty obvious to me.  In addition, the bonus dungeons are a step in difficulty above the normal game, so there's the distinct possibility that in universe mode they'd be too difficult to complete without resorting to excessive grinding or cheapness.  I'm not even worrying about battle trophies--it's fine and good when I stumble into them, but going after them purposely just seems like tedium.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:48:26 AM by magusgs » Logged

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daschrier
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« Reply #437 on: March 24, 2009, 10:48:01 AM »

Well, I was more refering to the fact that if I want all achievements is there any points in doing the post game stuff now or just moving on to universe to get to chaos.
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« Reply #438 on: March 24, 2009, 04:47:56 PM »

If you're going for 100% on achievements, you need to know that while battle trophies carry over, prerequisites do not.  IE -- If you need Faize's 3000 rapier stabs trophies and you are at, we'll say, 2500, the trophies for 1000 stabs and 2000 stabs will carry over, but the 2500 stabs towards the 3000 stabs will not.  So you should get the 3000 stabs on the first playthrough or you will need to get all 3000 again on the next playthrough.  Even if you had the 1000 and 2000 trophies.

IT'S FUCKED.
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daschrier
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« Reply #439 on: March 24, 2009, 07:06:07 PM »

I thought they did carry over...

I've read that people haven't gotten the 2000 battles for Edge in the first playthrough but got it soon after starting the next game.

Who knows.
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« Reply #440 on: March 26, 2009, 11:56:15 PM »

Unsure about the battle skills carrying over.  I find some of the easier ways to obtain them is through the Colosseum.  I'm not really trying for the trophies and I'm halfway finished with the bonus content and just hit 20%.  Kind of makes me feel like you have to try and achieve each one, then look up the next one and try for that one to be really successful at getting battle trophies.  The extra difficulties do earn a fair amount of nice achievement points for beating it, but seems like too much work to start over from scratch.  At least in Tales of Vesperia, you could get certain things to carry over (besides achievement stuff) through the grade shop.

Aru is pure ownage in the post-game material.  His Dragon Roar skill is so damn useful that it just demolishes everything in its path.  Even though Reimi is awesome, I think I would put Aru above her in terms of rankings in usefulness.  Also tried messing around with Meracle and she's actually pretty badass if you tweak her to be.  She'd never reach Aru or Reimi's level, but I'd put her close to Edge (perhaps).  Supposedly she can solo the final boss in the 2nd bonus dungeon (and maybe even the first one) easier than other characters because her blindsides are so powerful. SO4 is turning out to be much more abuse-able than I originally had thought.  I somehow keep learning new things =P.  I just finished the first bonus dungeon today, the Seven Star Dungeon.  The final boss is fairly difficult, especially considering my party members were still wearing laser armors and had around 2500 Defense.  Afterward, I crafted some new armor with some bonuses that doubled my defense and gave me high resistance to paralysis which would have been handy for that fight.

Onwards to the second bonus dungeon now.  Thankfully I found a new bow for Reimi (that equals the moonstone sword in power) fairly early in the dungeon so it should help Reimi's damage a lot since I don't control her anymore. 

I have to mini-rant for a second.  People complain about FFXII's gambit system and I really don't know why.  It's great for having a blueprint of how you want your allies to act.  It's nice when it comes to difficult bosses. Yeah, it's not as interactive and less of a video game, but it lets you have control over your party without frantically switching to control different characters.  When it comes to Star Ocean 4, the AI is just plain retarded.  Today I set Sarah to "keep away" in the tactics menu and turned off all spells except her 60% HP group heal, 100% HP rez spell, cure condition, and defense buff (to keep people alive longer).  Wouldn't you know, when fighting Gabriel today and when he would do his Judgment Spear (or whatever it was called, I was too busy cussing out Sarah to notice), half my group would become paralyzed or dead and instead of rezzing people or curing their condition, she would cast the defense buff on herself and almost wipe us completely if I hadn't intervened (protip: turn off buff spells on a big fight to avoid AI stupidity).  Not only that, I'd love to know what the conditions are for her to start healing.  Party almost dead, then wait 5 seconds I'm guessing? Thankfully the game includes 30% and 50% group heal berries to help alleviate the problems with idiotic AI.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 12:03:55 AM by Akanbe- » Logged


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magusgs
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« Reply #441 on: March 27, 2009, 06:56:52 PM »

FF12's gambit system was pretty neat.

I had around 60% battle trophies with Edge, and around 40-45% with the other 3 characters I mainly used (Meracle, Reimi, Myuria).  I also made no specific attempt to earn them.

But yeah, in hard boss battles I usually ended up maining Myuria to heal.  The AI works fine for the most part (hell, Faize beat me one-on-one in the duel the first time I tried it early in the game), but it can't be depended on to do the best thing in every situation, particularly when cheapness is required.

I went straight through the 2nd bonus dungeon and fought its last boss, without warping out to synth better equipment with the Philosopher's stones I'd farmed.  Damn that was a hard fight, even with level 200 characters.  It probably would've been significantly easier if I'd had more than 1 Resurrection Unit, but as it was I spent around 1.5hrs just trying to keep at least one character alive while I slowly chipped away at her HP.  Reimi was seriously the only reason I won, her kiting abilities were win.  Protip: Don't bring 2 melee unless you want them to spend 90% of the battle eating dirt.  If you bring 3...well good luck.
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« Reply #442 on: March 29, 2009, 06:21:35 PM »

Spent about 3 hours in the final boss sequence only to die.

Doubt I'll finish this game, I have no desire to grind just to beat a final boss.

This game ranks top 5 for me for worst final dungeon.

Edit: Took a few hours break, and went back to try again.
This time I beat it, but boy was the final boss long...

Didn't find the story as cringeworthy as everyone has made it out to be.

Most JRPGs have pretty terrible stories, and all boil down to, the power of friendship/love/teamwork/free will, while at the same time saving the world or universe.

Only thing that makes no sense at all
Code:
How Faize becomes the ruler of the missing procedure in a few hours time even though this missing procedure has been around for any number of years prior to its discovery.

Only unlocked Reimi's ending, probably cause I pickpocketed almost everyone in the game.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 09:09:06 AM by daschrier » Logged
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« Reply #443 on: March 30, 2009, 03:23:16 PM »

Jrpg stories are generally fine.  People just have their standards set way too high for a video game.

and Yeah, that makes no sense to me either.  Seems like a huge oversight on the writers behalf to me.  Not to mention the whole...

Code:
The phantoms started appearing before Faize left the party.  Who sent them?  Where did they come from? How did they get the power?  The game made it out to be that faize was the source after the missing procedure.  If that was the case, then faize wasn't really needed in the first place if the missing procedure could do it on its own.  Really doesn't make sense, at all.

So far, the next gen jrpgs have been really shitty minus a few titles.  I hope things eventually get less shitty.

Oh, and you're right.  That's probably the exact reason you didn't get the other endings.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 06:58:47 PM by Akanbe- » Logged


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daschrier
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« Reply #444 on: March 30, 2009, 04:21:04 PM »

Jrpg stories are fine.  People just have their standards set way too high for a video game.

and Yeah, that makes no sense to me either.  Seems like a huge oversight on the writers behalf to me.  Not to mention the whole...

Code:
The phantoms started appearing before Faize left the party.  Who sent them?  Where did they come from? How did they get the power?  The game made it out to be that faize was the source after the missing procedure.  If that was the case, then faize wasn't really needed in the first place if the missing procedure could do it on its own.  Really doesn't make sense, at all.

So far, the next gen jrpgs have been really shitty minus a few titles.  I hope things eventually get less shitty.

Oh, and you're right.  That's probably the exact reason you didn't get the other endings.

It seems like the developers/writers just wanted to design a game around a cool plot twist but failed miserably.

And yes, I really have no issues with most RPG stories, I think terrible was the wrong word. Even games like xenosaga which are among the better written JRPGs end up becoming way to philosophical and non-sensical for their own good. But they are just games and should be fun to play first and foremost.

People seem to look the other way with Grandia games because they are fun to play but beat up SO games for being basically the game thing, silly plots with amazing gameplay.
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« Reply #445 on: March 30, 2009, 05:29:32 PM »

As for JRPG stories, I don't want all media to have a stroy comparable to Citizen Kane.  I mean, even the "silly" plot twist in SO3 was alright.

...Man, I only just realized how awesome a Citizen Kane snowboarding game would be.
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magusgs
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« Reply #446 on: March 30, 2009, 06:29:24 PM »

Most JRPGs have pretty terrible stories, and all boil down to, the power of friendship/love/teamwork/free will, while at the same time saving the world or universe.

And Lord of the Rings is just about a band of miscreants and their adventures to destroy an evil ring.  Sure, you can simplify any story until it sounds meaningless.  Good story is mostly about execution and not so much novel ideas (despite all the ranting those nasty cliches always seem to inspire).  Star Ocean 4 tries to set up a complex plot, but ultimately lacks the level of writing required to pull it off convincingly and maturely.  As you say, many JRPG's center around the friendship/love/teamwork/freewill theme, but ultimately the good ones are the ones that draw the player in with convincing execution.  In that respect, complex doesn't always equal better, particularly when the complexity is just a mask to cover all the plot holes.

You're entitled to think that most JRPG's have terrible stories, but I disagree.  At the very least, I think most are much more coherent than SO4.  From what I remember, even SO3 was in a tier above SO4 in terms of story quality.  It was compelling and I never found myself questioning the story's direction, or not being convinced by the characters' words or actions.  Building convincing characters which the player can identify and empathize with (or at least acknowledge as possible) is key to a good story.  SO4's cast of overplayed caricatures simply does not fit the bill, and this is one of its primary weaknesses.  SO4 draws on anime for a lot of its storytelling style; while caricatures are common in anime, in the shows worth watching the caricature is merely a basis, rather than something that completely defines the character and completely binds them.
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« Reply #447 on: March 30, 2009, 07:03:42 PM »

To be fair, he did say in his next post that terrible was the wrong word (though personally I would probably use that word for SO4).

I think a lot of it boils down to your tolerance for certain story elements.
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daschrier
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« Reply #448 on: March 30, 2009, 07:06:21 PM »

TLOTR also presents a simple quest for a ring in a wonderful way.

I liked SO3 and SO4 equally, many JRPGs present a complex plot but not many can follow through.

The characters in SO4 aren't any worse than most RPGs either, but we all have the games we love and hate for different reasons.

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« Reply #449 on: March 30, 2009, 08:53:01 PM »

As for JRPG stories, I don't want all media to have a stroy comparable to Citizen Kane.  I mean, even the "silly" plot twist in SO3 was alright.

Well, when you say media I have to disagree. But it's more that people want a game that is as dramatically influential as Citizen Kane was for movies, and we possibly have that already (one of the Mario or Zelda games? GTA3?).

Anyways, JRPGs! I've already gone over this in other threads, but honestly it's less the stories themselves and more the execution. More specifically, the more movie-like they become the easier it is for flaws to stand out and bring down what would have been an otherwise serviceable or even entertaining tale. Just look at the game this thread's supposed to be about, even with some of that terrible writing I'm sure it'd be a lot easier to swallow if it were all done with sprites or at least wasn't voice acted. Beyond that, writing too damn much can be a problem too, at least when there's more repetition and useless crap said than anything actually added.

As for the cliches: I mostly just want some damn variety. Going over TVTropes pretty much shows the most you can hope for is an interesting spin or good execution on something already done, but there's some tropes that just aren't used as often as others. It's especially disheartening when deviations from the norm are squashed in favor of playing it safe, such as forcing Vaan into the lead role of FFXII rather than Basch, and tri-Ace's justification for making SO1-3 more or less GENERIC fantasy with some sci-fi sprinklings.
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