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Author Topic: Magna Carta 2  (Read 19653 times)
Aeolus
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« on: April 16, 2009, 01:29:02 AM »

Actually that should be three but whatever. The point is a new thread for discussion purposes.
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 06:13:32 AM »

Will the game be worth playing this time around?
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 08:59:56 AM »

The first one was god awful. The sequel would have to change pretty much everything to spark any interest from me.
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magusgs
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 09:21:28 AM »

I liked Magna Carta.  It was different and more mature than the usual fare.
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The content of this post represents solely the opinion of the user, and is not guaranteed for accuracy, completeness, or usefulness.  Any facts potentially contained therein may have little or no basis in reality.  RPGFan shall not be held liable for fits of aggression or disgust inspired by the contents of this post.  Read at your own risk.
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 11:15:11 AM »

Magna Carta: Tears of Blood had pretty graphics, solid music, and a solid storyline.  Where it really fell short was in the gameplay; too many confusing systems, a clunky interface, and horrendous camera.  Some of the load times were a bit long as well. 

Between the Chi system, the talisman system, the leadership system, and trying to keep track of all that while timing button presses to kill enemies = too many ingredients ruining an otherwise good, simple dish. 

I think a sequel to Magna Carta can be good, provided the gameplay systems are simplified (and some just gotten rid of), the interface becomes more intuitive, the camera does what it's supposed to, and the game loads smoothly.

I too didn't hate Magna Carta.  It wasn't an A-grade RPG, but it wasn't a terrible, horrible, no good mess.  I feel the same way about it as I do FF12; the story, graphics, and music are great, but I have issues with the gameplay.  But then again, I'm not a fan of needlessly twiddly, gimmicky systems. 

And I wonder, what's easier to correct?  Technical errors like this or je ne sais quois errors like storytelling and art style? 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 05:08:32 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 11:49:27 AM »

Its art style was fine. The music was average at best. Environments were expansive, but lacked interactivity which made exploration feel drawled out. Characters were originally intriguing, but their implementation in the latter part of the storyline was pretty lame and useless.

I liked Magna Carta: ToB. I can see people's complaints about it though. I don't think anything needs to be changed, except the pacing probably. Also, its battle system needs to be less-I-think-I'm-not-turn-based-but-I-kinda-really-am, to make it much more functional to the average gamer. They should also find a more interesting way for its fake-lame item creation, because as I said, I found the majority of environments boring. I'd rarely want to go back to an area to find some crappy items. With the way the set up the final bosses, maxed out weapons isn't even necessary.
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Robert Boyd
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2009, 05:02:10 PM »

Aside from the awful load times & the MMORPG-like segments (go collect x items from x enemies), I liked the Magna Carta we got.  Unfortunately the load times were bad enough that I eventually gave up on it.

A sequel that fixed the last game's problems while building on its strengths would be great fun.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 05:12:52 PM »

And I wonder, what's easier to correct?  Technical errors like this or je ne sais quois errors like storytelling and art style? 

Oh yeah, to clarify, I was referring to these aspects to RPGs in general and not to Magna Carta in particular.  The story and art style were good in Magna Carta, though characters like Calintz and Azel looked way too feminine for their own good.  Azel looks kinda like a girl I once dated and, yes, she was a cutie pie. 

Magna Carta with more streamlined gameplay would be sweet. 

And, yes, Panzer Dragoon Saga's Azel > Magna Carta's Azel
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 05:33:39 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 05:17:37 PM »

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Technical errors like this or je ne sais quois errors like storytelling and art style? 

Generally speaking, the art and story are much, much easier to fix.  All you have to do is hire a new artist/writer and bang, you're good to go.  With a new gameplay system, it's possible that you've have to completely revamp the entire way you approach your game, and scrap all previous ideas and programming.
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magusgs
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2009, 06:15:46 PM »

I disagree.  Sequels often resolve the technical problems in the game engine and improve upon the the gameplay systems laid out in the first game.  But story quality and style tend to be rather fixed in comparison, and indeed story quality can often degrade in future titles.  As for replacing the writer, as far as I'm aware most games with more than superficial story (i.e., almost all RPGs I play) require a team of writers with people in certain executive positions making key contributions to overall direction.  Similar situation for graphic artists.  I don't think firing the entire graphics or writing departments is a viable option for most game developers.  Smoothing out technical flaws, on the other hand, just takes time and experience with the engine, both of which are in greater supply when working on a sequel.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 06:18:29 PM by magusgs » Logged

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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 07:56:02 PM »

That would be fine if the main engine worked and was ok.  They'd have to make some major overhauls that would require lots of rebalancing and editing to make this game work, based off of the Tears of Blood model.

You can't just change things in a combat engine and expect them to work fine, there's a LOT of fine-tuning involved, especially with Action RPG engines.

And you'd be surprised how few people it takes to organize art direction and story direction.  Take Suikoden for instance, each game used a completely different art style from the previous one, but the characters all make sense being in the same world.  And each time it was pretty much just one guy doing all the art.
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magusgs
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 08:13:04 PM »

Right, but good overall direction doesn't equal a quality product.  From what I understand, the supervisor provides the overall direction, but he doesn't sit there and draw all the frames or spell out all the words.  He still has to depend on a good team to execute his good ideas in a way that works.  Typically, however, you'd expect a good supervisor to attract and hire good underlings.

I seriously suspect SO4's story suffered from such a problem.  It laid out some interesting ideas, but the execution was just terrible, as if the writers were working independently off a template envisioned by someone else.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 08:19:44 PM by magusgs » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 09:09:40 PM »

I would agree that story is a lot harder to fix because writing and plot problems don't originate from things like "time crunch" or "inferior hardware". They occur because the creators themselves have pretty poor storytelling and creative skills... and that's next-to-impossible to correct. It's also a question of taste. For some reason, the creator thinks that his type of storytelling, no matter how banel, cliche, or contrived, is great. Therefor, it's not something to "improve upon", but to "continue with".

Generally, if you have a series that has poor storytelling, the sequels will be poor as well. The scenario writers are pretty much at the top of the design team, and may often be the creator himself, so they're not likely to change from game to game. System designers, on the other hand may varry, as will the ideas of one designer form game to game.

Games with good storytelling, or show promise in that area, MAY get better and more refined, but they also have the possibility of becoming convoluted, as all creators feel the need to become ever more complex and dramatic, to try and 1up the previous installment.
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FormlessHaibane
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 10:01:22 PM »

Right, but good overall direction doesn't equal a quality product.  From what I understand, the supervisor provides the overall direction, but he doesn't sit there and draw all the frames or spell out all the words.

Their called a Director and that's exactly what they do. The rest of the creative team, not underlings, work to bring the director's vision to reality. During the creative process of bringing those ideas to reality some of the director's original ideas simply will not work. A good director will work with their team to find a solution to whats not working, a bad director refuses to listen to the issue and that's usually when things go bad. That or when Producers refuse to give the creative team the time it needs to fix the issues.
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blackthirteen
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2009, 11:15:14 AM »

I'm usually not picky, but well, let's hope the main character won't be a travesty this time. I really couldn't play Magna Carta because of this.
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