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Author Topic: Who here actually liked lost odyssey?  (Read 9021 times)
Blace
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« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2009, 01:03:27 AM »

Mack wasn't a wizard until he got possessed, which was well after that scene.

Plus, even if he had gotten through that one scene, there are plenty of others that were just as bad. It's not one scene. It's every scene the kids are in, because they are fucking insufferable. Your only defense is that JRPGs aren't supposed to be realistic, but there's a line between realism and seriousness. A game can be unrealistic but still serious in tone, and that scene fucks it all up. As mentioned before, if the game had the same tone as the Thousand Years of Dreams (which were absolutely stunning as far as narrative went), then the game would've been phenomenal. As it stands they attempted to make a JRPG that was serious and somber in tone, but ended up backpedaling to your usual JRPG cliches without remorse.

Also, kid characters can be used quite effectively. Karol in ToV had a gung ho attitude, and was just fun to watch. He didn't HIJACK A TRAIN TO SEE HIS DEAD MOTHER SOB SOB while his supposedly more level headed older sibling just went along with his dumbass plan "just because." Lymsleia in Suikoden V was a competent and capable princess and was so cute and cuddly you couldn't help but dote on and coddle her. She didn't sing a song her mother taught her to bring back her demented and batshit crazy grandmother.

This post just won the thread.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2009, 01:20:43 AM »

Only because he's trying to support your side of the argument.

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Mack wasn't a wizard until he got possessed, which was well after that scene.

I'll concede that he didn't have magic yet, but his sister did, and he's still the son of an immortal's bloodline.

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It's every scene the kids are in, because they are fucking insufferable.

So, acting their age = insufferable.  Gotcha.

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As mentioned before, if the game had the same tone as the Thousand Years of Dreams (which were absolutely stunning as far as narrative went), then the game would've been phenomenal.

I agree 100%.  And you know what?  The Thousand Years of Dreams sections had characters acting exactly like Cooke and Mack do.  I can think of 3 or 4 of the dreams where he deals almost exclusively with children, and they were some of the best ones.

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As it stands they attempted to make a JRPG that was serious and somber in tone, but ended up backpedaling to your usual JRPG cliches without remorse.

ITT: We don't understand that a story can be dark in overall tone but still have lighthearted moments in it.  Even Nocturne had a scene about a giant dick in it.

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He didn't HIJACK A TRAIN TO SEE HIS DEAD MOTHER SOB SOB while his supposedly more level headed older sibling just went along with his dumbass plan "just because."

They both wanted to see her, because they believed the story about the aurora over the mountains being able to breach the land of the dead.  They then saw an empty train that ran towards the aurora, 1+1=2, and they went for it.  They -are- children, after all.

Honestly, it just sounds like you don't know what the fuck you want.  You complain when child characters act like children, and then you complain again when they act too grown up.
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Eusis
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« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2009, 01:24:19 AM »

Even Nocturne had a scene about a giant dick in it.

Only the tip of it!
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Ashton
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« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2009, 01:48:06 AM »

So, acting their age = insufferable.  Gotcha.

Again I have to bring up Lymsleia. She acted her age while with her family, but was in general, responsible and strong. The key is not making the childishness overbearing. When you make child characters just these stupid kids that make dumb decisions which cause trouble for you, you know what, that's just annoying as shit. Child characters like Lymsleia, however, are much better executed and can be quite endearing.

I agree 100%.  And you know what?  The Thousand Years of Dreams sections had characters acting exactly like Cooke and Mack do.  I can think of 3 or 4 of the dreams where he deals almost exclusively with children, and they were some of the best ones.

Yes, but the thing is, the stories are highlighting the innocence of childhood, as lost to the horrors of war. For example, the story about the boy and the glowing rain was about his ignorance and innocence, and how tragically it ended when it was thrown against the reality of things. There is no such contrast for Cooke and Mack's antics. Cooke kicking Jansen in the shin for being hilarious just proves how obnoxious she is. Hijacking a train is completely random and retarded, there was no contrast, no rhyme or reason something like that should've happened. Cooke and Mack just stay these annoying kids for the entire game.

ITT: We don't understand that a story can be dark in overall tone but still have lighthearted moments in it.  Even Nocturne had a scene about a giant dick in it.

I understand quite well. Don't try to put words in my mouth. Lighthearted and being completely idiotic are different. Jansen = good lightheartedness. The kids = fuck this shit.

They both wanted to see her, because they believed the story about the aurora over the mountains being able to breach the land of the dead.  They then saw an empty train that ran towards the aurora, 1+1=2, and they went for it.  They -are- children, after all.

Tell me the last time you saw a kid hijack a train.

Honestly, it just sounds like you don't know what the fuck you want.  You complain when child characters act like children, and then you complain again when they act too grown up.
Where have I complained about the latter?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 01:50:42 AM by Leyviur » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2009, 03:02:13 AM »

and was so cute and cuddly you couldn't help but dote on and coddle her.

Like Nanako too! :}
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Parn
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« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2009, 06:59:12 AM »

You're right, it's so unbelievable that a soldier would fall over from a kid screaming because everything else about RPG's is just so realistic :)
Dumb argument is dumb.  It isn't about being realistic, it's about making sense.  If all it takes is a little kid yelling really loud to make a knight fall over, then knights are completely worthless in terms of their purpose, i.e. protecting a city from monsters.  The scene is completely unbelievable even in the context of the game's own established universe.

Edit: An addendum... consistency is key.  When Sonic the Hedgehog jumps onto Robotnik's latest machine and it starts blowing up, it doesn't bother me.  Why?  Because it's not supposed to be taken seriously.  Lost Odyssey on the other hand, IS trying to be taken seriously.  It's kind of like how Star Ocean 4 blew it for me.  You're presented this post-apocalyptic scenario where your crew is the last hope for humanity, and then a few gameplay hours later, you land on a planet and start working alongside 8-year-olds and communicate regularly with some dumb purple-haired chick whom takes part in only-funny-to-sweaty-anime-nerds cutscenes.  It's awful, inconsistent, and the game got shelved as a result.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 07:15:53 AM by Parn » Logged
Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2009, 09:24:48 AM »

I'll respond to Leyviur later today when I have more time.

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Dumb argument is dumb.  It isn't about being realistic, it's about making sense.  If all it takes is a little kid yelling really loud to make a knight fall over, then knights are completely worthless in terms of their purpose, i.e. protecting a city from monsters.  The scene is completely unbelievable even in the context of the game's own established universe.

Do you get this angry when giant sweatdrops appear over character's heads in other games?  Because it's the same principle.  They're overexaggerating an action to prove a concept.  This is not difficult to understand.
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Parn
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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2009, 09:57:23 AM »

What isn't difficult to understand is the fact that it doesn't take a knight falling over on his ass because a little boy yelled really loud to convey the idea that he's willing to stand his own ground.

Let me provide an example by using two different anime.  Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade is a very serious, political anime with brutal violence.  Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu on the other hand, is a not serious, comedic anime intended to exaggerate everything.  If the director of Jin-Roh insisted on using sweatdrops, funny faces, and unrealistic movements in Jin-Roh in the occasional scene, it would have killed the immersion.  Fumoffu on the otherhand, was ridiculous at every moment, and I enjoyed it.

Cooke and Mack killed the immersion in Lost Odyssey the moment they appeared.  What started off as a serious storyline (with a little comedy courtesy of Jansen) became a typical JRPG with little kids that stand in stupid Dragonball Z poses when they're angry, needing to charge up their energy before they yell at armored knights.  I'll pass, thanks.
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uwsguy
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« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2009, 02:02:24 PM »

I'm on my second play through now. I quit last time at the start of the fourth disc just because I really hated one dungeon.

I'm enjoying it so much more the second time, the cities (especially Numora ... however it is spelt) have great sidequests that I completely ignored last time and now that I'm not expecting the story to go in certain directions (and not to be Shadow Hearts 4)  it is actually quite good.

Since Kaim and the gang were immortals, when Cooke and Mack joined the scene I thought for sure that half way through the game something would occur and it would skip ahead twenty years or so. I was really expecting to see an adult Mack and Cooke so I was disappointed that that didn't seem to be happening.
Also, on the first run through Cooke's rugrats voice really got to me but playing through with the Japanese audio is a *lot* better.

Agreed that the train part was stupid but for the rest it still ranks a lot better than a lot of other big name RPGs.
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sandiny0ursh0es
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« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2009, 06:15:08 PM »

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't finish Lost Odyssey. I also stopped playing midway (end of Disc 2 I think) for various reasons. Mostly because battles took too long. I never found the kids annoying to the point where they were game-breaking for me. Eventually I'll pick this game back up and finish it.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2009, 07:30:02 PM »

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Mostly because battles took too long.

Try installing the game to your HD.  Everything runs a shit ton faster.
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Eusis
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« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2009, 07:59:43 PM »

They're still slow, but it does help. Part of it's simply the nature of modern RPG design though, even if loading were completely annihilated battles would still be slower than, say, the same battle in the DS DQ's engine.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2009, 08:05:36 PM »

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I love SMT so much.  No grandiose battle cinemas, just exactly what you need to see to make things interesting.
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Esper_Crusader
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« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2009, 09:37:10 PM »

Cooke and Mack sucked balls and the regular fights went on way too long. Other than that, the game was decent.
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« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2009, 09:16:40 AM »

The biggest problems with the battles is that Kaim was really the only one who could take down an enemy in a single hit, as long as you had the right ring attributes and could score a perfect ring.

Spells were useless to try and cast, as a mass attack spell would take a round or two to cast, and by that time Kaim could've wiped out the battle field.
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